Influential Studs - Page 3

Ibrahim:
 Illo v d Abfuhr
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/361428.html
One of the best working dogs I have seen. His Father is Noch zugelassen but Illo produced  good hips. He himself had great hips. Especially if bred with Titus - Norbo.  However Illo's ped says his father  hips 'a'. (picture enclosed)  Illo's pedigree is who is who in super dogs!He was an epithomy of a all around dog and he passed it on his progeny. It is valuable to have this dog on the pedigree.

 We have sold Illo to Salworth kennels. Illo Died in December 2009. What a great dog!!!!!!!!
 Go ahead and read on Illo here. I cound not give him bettere tribute then they did.:
http://www.stalworthkennels.com/illo_vd_abfuhr.htm

WOW!  What a gorgeous dog Illo was.  I suppose they have frozen semen.

Too bad they only got to have him for 3 years. 

I wonder what dogs think when they get sold as they are entering old age.  Some dogs seem to be such a commercial commodity that they change owners so many times and into their old age.  They may have started out their life as a beloved family member and lived in the house.  At five years old, at the height of their commercial value,  they could go through any number of homes and and end up living in a crate in an outdoor shed.

Illo was lucky, beyond the investment angle, it seems like they really loved him.

Michele

Males-Troll von Haus Milinda, Fado von Karthago, Bernd vom Lierberg, Timmy von der bosen Nachbarschaft, Mink vom Haus Wittfeld, Lewis von Malatesta, Yoschy von der Dollenwiese, Drigon vom Fuhrmannshof, Fero vom Zeuterner Himmelreich, Harro aus der Leehrainstadt, Grief zum Lahntal, Sagus vom Busecker SchloB, Troll von der bosen Nachbarschaft  

Females. Afra vom Stoppenbergerland, steffi van tiekerhook, Askia vom Froschgraben

     Mark

 www.kampkanine.com 

 www.ultimatekanine.com

I was kindly asked to comment on this thread by the gentleman who started the thread in PM, so I will offer what I can (which ain't much, but the guy asked).

Does he get along with children and small animals? --- Does WHO get along with them? The influential studs you listed below? There is no way for me to know the answer to that question as I have not seen those dogs mentioned in person and allof them are long dead now. What I can tell is about my dogfrom Fero, troll, yoschy, tim abfuhr etc... lines - my dog gets along fine with children, they don't bother him at all. Small animals - no absolutely not.He will chase them and killthem, if allowed. Cats, squirrels, possums - all fair chase game, obedience goes out the window if he is off leash. But, to his defense he is "young and restless" stil at 21 months and I have not enforced anything on him not to. I have a 3 year old son and the dog eitherlicks him or ignores him and kind of "puts up with him: and the kid os allover the dog. Of course that has been enforced since the dog was in my family at 8 weeks of age.

All other children he also does fine and he is stable, except if they try to hug him. He does not like that, I guess anyone being in his face, but my immediate family. I don't think he will bite bite anyone, but he doesn;t like it, it's that dominant streak, don't enter my persona space too much.

Is he stable? Does he take advantage of the handler? --- Again, no way to know. Yes,  he is stable and a thinking dog. As far as taking advantage of me, I'd say yes, he tries to,  jot much success, but he tries to. He is also very vocal with alarge assortment of barks, whines,yodels, this sound and that sound, again, those lines give that.

Number of males vs. females in his litters, ear faults, testical faults, and dentition faults in his progenies --- You can research all that on the internet on your own, those dogs have been used SO MUCH that you mention below, and have thousands of progeny to their name, is should be well documented.

His drives? Which drives he has and are they balanced? -- Yes, the drives are balanced, again, depending on the situation.  Also, my definition of "insane, through the roof" drives, may be different than yours. if I had to put numbers to it, his prey drive is high and with bitework, his predominant drive is defense drive.

Does linebreeding to this particular studs leads to weak progenies at any level? ----Read above, answer before the previous one, you can find all that on the internet.

The pups he sired are smarter or stupider? --question is too ambiguous, as I don't know how "smart" Fero was.

The sutd is half of the equation but they are sometimes recommended for passing certian traits to their litters, such as, better hips,traninability, pigment, etc................. --- Again, all the dogs you mentioned below are GSD legends and ones of the most outstading specimens of the breed ever, so the answer is -hips are hips, some are know toproduce this and that, some are not, those are facts that cannot  be debated and cann be researched by you further. The other parts of your question - trainability - is impossible to answer. Idon't know what your training skills are, maybe you can make a dog race in NASCAR, maybe you suck and can't make a dog sit, no way to know that here, so no way to answer that precisely. Pigment answer, I cannot answer that, I don't care about pigment. See hip answer above.


Here are a few studs to get started, if you know anything about any of them please mention it:

Tom van't Leefdaalhof

Orry von Haus Antverpa

Troll von der bösen Nachbarschaft

Fero vom Zeuterner Himmelreich

Don vom Clausberg

Tino vom Fel

Tino vom Felsenschloß

Ernst vom Weinbergblick

Asko von der Lutter

Gent od policie


If you like any others studs not mentioned, list them please!

I can add:
Yoschy Dollenwiese
Jim Beam Talka Marda (NOT Javir!,but his brotherJimBeam)
Berned Lierberg's brother Bodo, he was a better dog (athough, again, same as with Troll, my dog's lines are from Bernd)
and
Timmy Bosen Nachbarshaft, in my opinion better producer than Troll, although Tro was used a whole lot more. Troll is in my dog's lineage, but Timmy is the guy.

and Zidane Haus Sevens. Too bad his current owner has had continuous problems with customers, a hell of a dog.

Ibrahim,

Pharaoh vom Banach (my dog) is a son of Aron vom Popitz  who is a Don Clausberg son and a grandson of Tino vom Felsenshlob.  Aron is also 5-5,5 on Don Rolandsteich.  It is almost as if Whatif was looking at Aron's pedigree.  But, it seems as if all the DDR dogs are cousins.

I am surprised that there was no mention of Sven or Enzo Grafental.

Michele

I personally think Prager point of view is correct as a single stud has more influence on the breed as a whole compared to the female as the stud breeds more and produces more puppies than a female does and this is common sense.
Steve has a valid point of view if theoritically a male and female influence genes of puppies 50-50 which I personally doubt as I think the influence of male genes should be actually more !! but according to steve adding the influence of mother raising the children and feeding them adds up to its influence on the puppies and this could be true as the male plays no role on the puppies after they are sold, but in real animal life the influence of male would be much more than the female in the pack and here is how correct Prager is in the example of wolves pack.
Here are more to think of, in human race a family tree does not include females, it includes only males. One carries his or her father's family name not the mother's family name, see also  Kings and their heirs etc.
Now some breeders list the bloodline of their dogs in males decending not females, this implies that the influence of studs is logically and could be scientifically more, in the end nothing is against females or women here.

Ibrahim

Sorry this one belongs to the other side of the coin I will copy and paste it there, sorry for the mistake.

curious to know what Illo offspring will carry on this line to make him  influental in the breed

a name im missing in this threat is  Car z Kostolianskej cesty
 
stil great dogs out  of his offspring around

my two sisters and I have three puppies which are grandsons and granddaughters of Ilo

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/631648.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/631653.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/637853.html

And Prager,

I could not afford a son of the great Quanto but I have his granddaughter now

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/637851.html

Do you think she will have some of his personality and looks ?!

And my closest friend has his grandson, my puppy's full brother but still not on the PDB



Ibrahim