Line Breeding - Page 1

Can a grandaughter and Son of a male dog be bred?

Can? Or should?

Probably shouldn't, but it happens. When it does, the offspring should be outcrossed for several generations.

Means that they are bred to dogs with the desired similar traits that are not related to their linebred portion of the pedigree.

What you are desribing is called a 2-3 or 3-2 line breeding. It is a strong method to influence type and lock in traits. The coefficient of relationship is 37.5% and the coefficient of relationship is about 9.63%.  This is an newphew to aunt mating or an uncle to niece mating.

What you are desribing is called a 2-3 or 3-2 line breeding. It is a strong method to influence type and lock in traits. The coefficient of relationship is 37.5% and the coefficient of inbreeding 9.63%.  This is an newphew to aunt mating or an uncle to niece mating.

This is called "Bracket's Formula". Let the sire of the sire be the grand-sire of the dam. This is a strong line breeding but it is not inbreeding (which is half siblings). https://dpca.org/breeded/bracketts-formula/

@alexnds05, what is your position on this scenario overall?  Should it be one iterative or more,  and then the gene pool broadened out to some specific number of sires/brood bitches to establish a line?   You have a lot of good info and I'd like to see people discuss more about establishing brood stock.  I think that gets left out of discussions.  What I wonder might happen is a lot of times people start down a breeding program path, but lack the foresight to continue onward, to really strengthen a line.   I am one who believes the breed cannot be strengthened.  The breed is the breed, and we can only dilute or detract from it.  Thanks for your perspective.  I see a lot of people posit their goal is to improve on the breed, but I think the genetic zenith happened waaaaaay back then. 

Generally when I consider such a breeding, I typically would do this a bit later in a given focus dogs life, ideally you have gained a great deal of information on what he produces from a few litters and the progeny are old enough to determine health or genotype strengths and weaknesses.
Sometimes this method is also employed early in a focus dogs career particularly if that Male is a product of an outcross. This tool would be used to quickly determine what strengths and weaknesses exist, which helps assist and educate for future breeding decisions

In either case, you have to be willing to accept and be prepared to deal with the outcome, good or bad.

Good Luck

Regards,

M

Just FYI the only dog in my 20-dog kennel that has a COI over 25% (I did NOT breed this dog) has an enormous pile of health problems, probably resulting from all the genetic time bombs' fuses being lit by the "Line breeding."

I would never touch a dog with a COI that high and will not ever again deal with a breeder that produces dogs like that. Consider how doing this type of breeding reflects on your breeding program as a whole.

@jillmissal: well then you can´t buy any gsd ever again. the average coi is over 28%. lowest dog I know has 27% and highest 40% and it won´t become better if we don´t start to do some more crossbreedings......even when u mate them to a VEO or swiss shepherd, you will get an average coi of 25%. same with mixing the lines. show, ddr, working, czech etc. mostly you are above 28%.
but breeders continue to do tight linebreedings...they just don´t care. a lot of them also think, that the pedigree based coi is the same as the genetic one.....

Considering the ubiquitous nature of the incidence of 2xVA Remo v Fichtenschlag in the top 100 placements (in any class) at BSZS, and the fact that seeing him 3 or more times in a 5 generation pedigree is fairly frequent, and the temperament that he produces, or doesn't, how big of a complication does such a situation imply, even now as he recedes into generation 5 and 6, as the SV continues to reward breedong into him at the expense of maintaining some genetic diversity at the top?