Czech Breeding - Page 1

I had posted an add earlier about breeding my Czech female, when she is old enough, titled and has an OFA,  to Czech male. It would have been alot of line breeding on Grim Z PS....several people on here said that I shouldnt do it because of the line breeding and the possibliity of having hip problems in the puppies. I have decided not to breed my female to this male. I am looking at another male and I would like some opinions on this cross....

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/para.utkoma?fadir=434482&modir=475396

Your female's linebred 4,4-4 on Grim herself!!  Good luck with her OFA :-)

hi Jyl

you cannot make a combination based on pedigrees , but you have to look at the  females qualities and faults , and go from there

the Grimm linebreeding story people are giving you is also bogus , as you have to look at the dogs

knowing Orry myself he has everything and more of his sires line both in looks and temperament , he is a 100% Pike dog

Even if one was planning on linebreeding on Grimm , Orry wouldnot be the dog to use

so my advise is to look at your bitch , find out what she needs in conformation , health and temperamend , and choose your male from those maleswho have just that

furthermore  I personally would linebreed on a strong line in your bitch (hoping she carrys some of these genes) of marco z danaru  , by using something out of Marco  or the old Tom z Pohranicni straze or from Furo kamos  offsprng

good luck

Duke1965

You're right in the fact that one must look at the dogs themselves, but the pedigrees cannot be overlooked. 

Do you have statistics of what Grim has produced, linebreeding on Grim has produced when it comes to hip ratings?    You sound like you are absolutely positive that Grim's production is a rumor.  I would imagine that you have seen or have these stats at your disposal.  I am very interested.  Could you please post these stats or a link to find these stats?

What does Orry have to do with linbreeding of Grim?  Does he not compliment Grim, or vice versa?  I'm not going to look at the pedigree again, but isn't Orry already in her female, that is already linebread on Grim?  If that is the case, by your standards, the bitch may not be breedworthy herself.  But then again, you have stated that a pedigree doesn't mean as much as the dogs, themselves.  Right?

Maybe I saw the pedigree wrong or I have misunderstood your statement, but would this not be a linebreeding to Marco 4-5? 

Jyl

I'm not going to comment on the Grim subject of hips because it has been beaten to death.  I only wanted to say that Bax is a very nice import and Connie is a great person to deal with.  She is an honest person.

Duke1965

Sorry I had to look at that pedigree again and disregard the Grim and Orry complimenting eachother question. 

Don ,I know the hipstats on Grimm , but thats not what I mean

to put it simply , if you look at the pedigree of Jyl,s bitch , where do you find Grimm , howmany generations back , and secondly , how much of the Grimm genes do you expect her female to carry , first in theoretical percentage of the pedigree and secondly  , how many Grimmgenes do you think  Orry will pass on being a Grimmgrandson on paper , but being  a Pike clone in looks temperament and caracter ?

Orry is clearly a fathertypical dog and therefore will probably pass on more genes from his sires line than from his dams side

theoreticly , her bitch (if the pedigree on database is correct)  carrys 18.75 % Grim genes , but in fact in can be only  2 or 5 or7 percent

thats why you have to look at the dogs first and the pedigrees second

furthermore it is my strong believe if you have a dog with bad hipstats in your ped 5 times  but no bad hips on sire and dams side for 3 or more generations , the hips will not be a big risk anymore

and finally , if her bitch is breedworthy herself can never be seen by the pedigree only

thats why I find a lot of ads on this website hilarious , stating    worldchampion grandson for sale

Duke1965

Is there any way you can produce those stats or point us in the right direction?

Jyl, What Duke stated makes sense.  Although I'm partial to Tom because he's Agar's sire, I've spoke to a lot of people who have sons and daughters out of Tom who've all had extremly nice dogs; well balanced, stable in the head, great temperment, no hip issues AND they can do the work.  If hips are something you want to improve then something along Tom's lines will certainly help amongst other things.  It's worth looking into.

Agar

There are two Tom z Pohranicni straze.   I don't know if Duke meant the other one, but he said "old Tom".

Other than that, I agree with you, your Tom is a great dog!

You can not put a percentage of what you will get from a pedigree.  You can't even put a percentage of what genes you will get out of a single dog.  You may get the prefered genes and you may get the less desired.  That is why linebreeding, like breeding itself, is a crap shoot.  Sure, you look at the dog, then the pedigree, then the progeny.  I agree with Duke that there are podium dogs that don't reproduce themselves.  Can we assume that there are some mediocre dogs that don't reproduce themselves and you may end up with a hell of a dog? Sure, it is a crap shoot.    Are the odds better if you have a pedigree stacked with world champions?  A bit.  The best thing to do is see what has been produced.  Plain and simple.  Some of the highest sought after dogs in a pedigree were not World Champs or BSP siegers.  Fero, troll, Nick, Pike, Yoshy etc. etc.  The Pohranicni straze used Titus extensively because he was a producer.  Jiri said that you could breed him to a goat and get phenomenal pups with excellent hips.

Marco is out of Cordon and so is old Tom

young Tom is out of Grimm

I have the hipstats of many dogs but to publish the hipstats of any dog is up to the dogs owner , not to me