Beautiful dog!

lovely dog , rich pigment.

I think you are right, an in between dog would be ideal, I'd like to see some more correct type working dogs also some more showline dogs with better working attitudes. To be fair and I am not generalising, there are a lot more showline dogs that would be capable of trialing at a reasonably high level but I think you have to make the decision on whether you show or trial, partly for the reasons I explained below and partly for the amount of time involved training a dog to top level working competion level.
The 2 sides will never agree on this one, so not much point in continuing the discussion. Apologies to Heather for hijacking her comments thread for the lovely Cougar!

Hi again Carol, I'm not in "wind up mode" this morning and I know all about your sieger achievements,some of my friends on the working side think showlines are "blondies", all show and no go,some of my friends on the show side think working lines are ugly and poorly constructed, my opinion ?, the best qualities of the two would be the perfect allround dog, a Pamela Anderson/Delia Smith type if you like, but I dont think there are many of those around.

Ummm not quite sure what you are getting at Spectator, or if you are just trying to incite a show v working argument.

Firstly I dont think most 'show' people would disagree that a lot of show line dogs would in anyway compare to a lot of working line dogs on the trials field. You must remember the fundamental difference. Working dogs trial for the sport, show line dogs compete in a trial to get a schh qualification to enable them to be bred from, they may never go on a trials field again once qualified, I certainly wouldnt want to risk a top show dog with injury by trialing it week in week out for fun or sport.

The bitework at the Sieger show is indeed a big crowd puller, but believe me is taken very seriously by the competitors and German breeders. Having worked a bitch in the schutzdienst at the Sieger show I can tell you it was probably the most stressful thing I have ever done!
Training dogs to the sleeve can indeed be fun, but they do have to show a certain amount of courage as well, would you want to be run at by a big German waving a stick at you!! A wee bit of courage is also required Spectator!! scares the S..t out of me anyways!! lol
best wishes Carol

Hi Carol, I wouldn't dream of trying to correct you I only do that when I know what I'm talking about, isn't that right sueb, lol. Regarding the manwork at the German sieger show I dont know much about that either, but maybe its still included as a crowd pleaser, surely if the dog has the title its has proven its capable of passing the test,under somebody somewhere on a good day, BUT lets get real here show working titles are for the most part a pale imitation of what a real working dog can achieve, dont misunderstand me here I'm not in the working side of the breed, I like a pretty show dog above any other, but I dont kid myself they are the finished article, yes there have been a very few show dogs that were the real deal, but a Sch in front of its name doesn't convince me very often,
just because a dog thinks its a great game to go onto the sleeve dont make it brave.

Hi spectator

correct me if I am wrong, but I think you have to pass the bitework to get a VA Title. I understand from the committee that they cannot schedule bitework because of insurance problems, a great pity as there were several dogs/bitches present more than capable of passing the bitework I am sure.

With regard to entries, the actual entry number was very high, the dogs present have been listed in the full results.

There were Germans present, several handling and some spectating, I have spoken to them at and after the show and they all thoroughly enjoyed the show and I am sure will come again!!

A great effort by the GSA, and for me the best show I have attended in GB or Ireland for many years.

Well Heather the title of the topic is your dog but surely the show and its merits are more important wouldn't you agree ?,and any discussion is to be encouraged, though there is just one point that I am confused about,if there were sieger titles to be awarded why weren't there any VAs ?.

I was not at the Irish Sieger either but from reading posts below can I suggest some are talking at cross purposes, when in fact both are possibly right.
Steve Cox talks of ENTRIES, Videx talks of results, which I take to mean present on the day.
From what I have been told, I understand the German spectators present were more than usual at UK shows. There were to my knowledge at least two German Dogs entered/present who have never competed in shows on the mainland.
At the end of the day a total of 82 dogs present, spread over only 8 classes, would lead to a larger quantity in each class than at some Uk Shows.
Not been at either the Irish Sieger or Leicester I am unable to say how many were entered or present on the day at either show but the fact remains, YOU HAVE TO BE IN IT TO WIN IT and if we are ever to get the GSD Show Scene back on track here in the UK - it is time we stopped trying to belittle the achievements of others and their dogs, whoever they are.
Once again , Well done to all who supported both shows at the weekend on your results.
Regards
Sue B

Thanks very much to all who have made valid comments on this forum about Cougar and our other dogs. However, as we seem to be getting onto the subject of the Irish Sieger show, can you please refrain from using my dogs thread and start a new one just for the Sieger Show, which would be more suitable for all. Cheers - Heather

I have helped promote the Irish Sieger since it inception, unfortunately I have not been able to attend because it would require 2 to 3 days away, and we have to care for our other dogs, twin grand-daughters, etc.

What is puzzling me about the comments coming from several people are the quotations of the numbers of dogs in each class, and now a mention of entries coming over from Germany. Figures mentioned of 30 in some classes, and I have been told 50 in some classes.
Looking at the RESULTS the number of dogs in each class was as follows:

PUPPY MALE: 8
YOUTH MALE: 7
YOUNG MALE: 5
ADULT MALE: 16
TOTAL MALES = 36

PUPPY FEMALE: 10
YOUTH FEMALE: 12
YOUNG FEMALE: 10
ADULT FEMALE: 14
TOTAL FEMALES = 46

I CANNOT IDENTIFY ANY GERMAN ENTRIES THAT CAME OVER SPECIFICALLY FOR THE SHOW; THERE ARE MANY GERMAN IMPORTS, RESIDENT IN IRELAND AND THE UK, WHO WERE ENTERED.

I feel it is a very important and prestigious show on our Show Calendar, and support for it should continue to grow, but exaggeration serves no purpose other than to give wrong information and the wrong impression.

Calm down, calm down, wasn't it great that Varus got made up at the weekend I'm sure you will want to offer solo your congratulations via this forum, not sure that I belittled Heather either, though if I had I think she is far more capable of defending herself than you, thanks for the invite to the Irish show next year I will let you know if I can make it nearer the time, bye for now new friend.

Hi All,
Just registered for the first time on this site.
Heather,Dave, well done at the Irish Sieger Show, a massive achievment with your dogs against top top opposition in what I can only describe as classes that resembled how the shows used to be in the UK 15 years ago, big entries in all classes, especially the female classes. How many in the open classes, close to 30 in each of the male and female open classes, for me the 'Irsih Sieger' is now the most important show of the year, large rings, no ring stewards making you feel like a criminal for shouting your dogs, AND it is attracting the Germans over here with there dogs, how many were over? More that we ever get in the UK thats for sure. Personally in the years my dad and I have been in dogs and the good fortune we have had i.e winning 2 day shows, Crufts etc, I can honestly say, hand on heart that winning 3 classes at the Irish Sieger, given the competition we were against, this success for us is the greatest we have ever had in Britain, I'm sure you feel the same. Congratulations again.

Spectator......Maybe you will come next year and whitness this great event for yourself, I assure you, you will see great progress, and as a lover of the GSD as you are, hopefully you will not make the negative remarks as I have just read, it's not nice to belittle people and their achievments.

Best Regards
Stephen Cox

Thank you Sue and Spectator. It was a wonderful day and yes Spectator I have no doubt it will be a long, long while before any UK kennel has the German kennels quaking in their boots so to speak. However we do our best and enjoy it.

Well done Heather & Dave with Solo, Ginger and Erin. All your hard work has been rewarded. Good luck in the future.
Sue x

I stand corrected Heather you are right of course, obviously I wasn't present but I understand of late that shows in Ireland have been poorly supported, and idealistic as the SV system may be, I dont think its going to set the GSD show scene alight over here, at best I would compare the show in Ireland to a landesgruppen show, and I dont think siegers are declared at those shows. Please dont take this as an attempt to undermine yourself or your dogs,from what I have seen on your website you do own some excellent dogs relative to whats in the UK, but I doubt if the Germans are quaking in their boots just yet.

Thanks Spectator. He didn't beat any adults, of which there were actually around 20 in the class, as he was the JHKL Sieger (18-24mths)which was also a good class. I'm pretty sure full results will be available on the GSA Website very soon. This years GSA show was the best supported so far in terms of both quantity and depth of quality. I really hope this trend continues into 2006.

Well done, but how many adult males were actually present for him to beat ?.

SG1 Conbhairean Cougar is the 2005 Irish JHKL Sieger under highly respected SV Judge and Breeder Herr Rudiger Mai.

Thanks Big B, Tango and Andrew for your comments. Although, we were evidently not happy with the call out position of Cougar, our decision to withraw him was also coupled with the fact, that from the moment we left the uk, the dog flatly refused to eat, anything! After a day or so, I was forced into asking everyone in our party, to save some of their dinner for him, as we could only get him to eat steak!!!consequently, he ended up with a severe dose of the runs, lasting the entire weekend. It was evident to those from the UK, who were with us, that by the Monday, the dog had brightened up immensely and had obviously been under the weather. Once, home he quickly regained his appetite and returned to his fit and healthy self.

Another exceptional dog from this First Class Kennel in Scotland.
My best wishes for future success.

Cougar is available at stud in the UK, being,we believe, the only son of Seiger Ursus available here. He is correct medium size, strong and substancial with very masculine head. Black and rich gold in colour with excellent angulations. To match this, he has a fantastic character and has already been used by some top kennels. He is currently being trained for his Schutzhund here in the UK with us. He will go to Germany next year, where we will show him at the start of the season.

A very good young dog - saw him in the Ursus group at Karlsruhe. I agree he is better than his call-out place and I wish his owners lots of success with him.

Another nice male out of my favourite Ursus.

Jozolli, thanks very much for your lovely comments re Cougar. Solo, you are perfectly correct in the call out position of cougar, a position WE and the handler felt was not worthy of his quality, so he was withdrawn. Hopefully, we may have better luck next year.

Couger was placed in 14th position in the THIRD ring of the JKR (junior) Class at Karlruhe - this was around 120+ position.
He was then withdrawn - EZ,

As the idea here is to 'let other breeders know and read about your experience with this dog'... for those who havent seen him, C Cougar is black and rich gold, absolute middle size, strong, very well balanced, with a lovely front, beautiful (Ursus)head and expression and super character.
I hope he gets some quality bitches as his front and his colour alone will be of benefit to many breeders.

We hope to show Cougar at this years Sieger show, along with his sister Connie, coat permitting, as they are both blowing!!!