BSZS 09/07/23 - Page 1

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by charlie319 on 05 September 2023 - 08:09

This week will be the World Championship. Last year's "champion", Usher, will defend against his kennelmate, Uvo, last year's VA3... The last few years have had its share of controversy... It will be interesting to see how the SV handles this one.

I will be looking to see how Vello v Eichenplatz places. The 2023's Universal Sieger V1 (scored a respectable 230 in the trial portion in a very competitive field of WL dogs) may certainly improve on his V36 from last year's BSZS. I expect him to remain V, but maybe get into the single digit V's.

Looking for Youles and Wacron to challenge. Youles can certainly win it. This should be Wacron's last BSZS as he will be seven soon and he has produced well. Both should have nice progeny groups.

Any favorites for a strong showing?

by Klossbruhe on 05 September 2023 - 12:09

In 30 years of following and going to the BSZS, I have never seen a returning Sieger put anything but 1st place again even though he should not have been. Back in '94 Kimon was limping terribly but Hermann Martin still made him Sieger anyway, Kennel name, Haus Beck, from his buddy, the SV Head Kormeister, Dr Beck. There are several reasons why a dog becomes Sieger, and unfortunately, as Stefanitz spins in his grave, perhaps the most important is $$$. And if you do not think this is the case, then your head is in the sand....If Usher is shown, he will win. If the owner of Uvo has paid a lot more, then most likely, Usher will not be shown, but if he is shown, he will win. Just look back at the history of the BSZS results. Recently, both Kaspar and then ASAP should have gone Sieger in the following years after Willy, but good old Josephine and her well heeled client insisted on bringing Willy back to ace out Kasper who then died before he could go again. And ASAP, from an American breeder, was aced out by a dog belonging to a SV Kormeister. I remember my friend Martin Gobl was told on 2 occasions not to bring back Cash Wildsteiger Land and then Karly Arminius, both of whom should have gone Sieger. Gobl did not listen to Peter Messler and brought them back anyway. Each finished VA2. In the case of Karly, the crowd booed vigorously when Karly was not given Sieger...At least Peter Messler knew how to breed. Bernd Weber has never produced anything of note and as a protege of Reinhard Meyer is not particularly known for his backbone...

As for Vello, a V36 dog is very unlikely to go V10 or higher the next year. I have seen it happen once or twice because the dog belongs to a SV kormeister, which in this case the dog does---Lutz Wischalla. So maybe the fix is in, especially if Lutz has got a customer or has already sold the dog...Of course, he will remain a V if shown.

As for Wacron, there has not been a 7 year old Sieger since the time of Hermann Martin who used to pay attention to progeny production which has not been the case since he died...


by charlie319 on 06 September 2023 - 15:09

I do believe that Uvo is also owned by Josephine Kao...

There have been recent developments that may do away with my expectations. Bernd Webber has announced that, this year, it will not be required for dogs to have a progeny group to crack the VA rating... Thus, Grimm Della Valcuvia is now likely to be a top five finisher... Grimm is also owned by Josephine Kao... Such luck!!!

I can concede that, in Vello's case, a 20 spot leap is substantial. However, he recently won the WUSV Universal Sieger Show and may reap some benefit from winning a show missed by Usher, Quantum, Uvo, and the rest of the VA dogs... What with temperament and "working ability" being a moderately rare commodity in this era of weak and no stick hits... Let alone his Remo-free pedigree.

I doubt there's a buyer for Vello. The SV is all in in promoting what in 2009 they called "The future of the breed" which resulted in the ridiculous two years where all the VA's were VA1... Why stop there? Participation trophies are not far off. I like him for what he should bring to a mating... After earning his Universal Sieger, his "dance card" should fill up. Perhaps next year he may have a modest progeny group.

While it is true that he is edging to the 7 year old cliff, he does have the conformation and his progeny group is probably better than Mondo... it would possibly be led off by Grimm Della Valcuvia and he has more than a handful of VA offspring... Finally,after the last two shows, a Wacron win might be enough to appease the rabble over the hollow wins of Mundo and Usher.


by charlie319 on 06 September 2023 - 15:09

Is there an SV rule thatcompels males to retire from open competition at age 7, or is this just a ploy to create openings for the new and future champions that will allow breeders to ship off aging studs to third world countries and get their clientele to buy the latest, greatest litter?

I once had a male that had Art Z Lipin in his pedigree... Art competed to a ripe old age. Because he could. He also carried Rony v Arolsser Schloss... If Asap were competing this week, he would be likely to be on the podium. In my opinion, this type of longevity is an excellent marker for health... Both physical and mental, and would do more for the "future if the breed" than the current mandated obsolescence.


by Dog1 on 06 September 2023 - 22:09


Good discussion here. Lots of thoughts going into the show this weekend. 15 years ago and this forum would be buzzing with discussions.

By the time a dog is 7 it has offspring to carry on the bloodline. Once the VA males have made their contribution to the breed, they may go to other countries at 6 years old or so. Many are retained for the treasures they are.

Who goes forward to carry the Willy line will be interesting. Two VA already from Mondo last year and Usher. Usher has been campaigned. If he shows he will win as they don't go from VA1 anywhere else. There's an Usher son or two that could enter the VA group this year. Mio seems to be the best challenger. My favorite from Willy, Thiago was passed over. Progeny group usually backs up the final decision or at least it should. Usually one owner not 2 in VA group. Only one kennel in the VA group with some exceptions which may have been part of why Thiago didn't make it into the VA group.

The SV misses the mark to a degree by not promoting the Universal dogs at the sieger show. Top 10 V would place a dog high enough for more that sought the Universal dog to use them. Most of those breeders, the good ones go to them anyway regardless of placement. There was a thread years ago here on PDB about working ability in the conformation lines. The dogs identified in that discussion appear often in the motherline of Vello.


by charlie319 on 07 September 2023 - 18:09

I have a theory that revolves around the promotion of Remo As "the future of the breed", and how it backfired on the SV.
Since then, we have seen the silliness in '13 and '14 of handing out VA1 to all the VA dogs. Changes in weakening protection rules... to benefit soft dogs.
The so called Lilla v Haus Thalie rule...
I suspect that as Remo's first crop matured and showed a lack of protection temperament, puppy buyers called breeders with demands, who in turn (those who could exert influence) called the SV... to safeguard their reputation and ability to command high prices gor their pups... One can argue that the SV has complied. For whatever reason, Remo was bred only until 2013, and then once in '15, per SV récords. A rather short career for a 2xVA1 who remained in Europe.

While I like Omen, and. Pacco/Pepe, I have never liked Willy much and considered Mondo a "going away" or lifetime achievement award for his dying owner. Usher blew the long bite last year and that should have cost him the podium. In my opinion, he is a hollow champion... But, I'm not a judge. Remo's progeny is vast (400+???) and, considering the females he was bred to, the proportion of VA dogs is very small. By the same token, the number of good reproducers (of either sex) is very small.

This last tactic (hard to see anything strategic here) of letting dogs achieve VA without progeny is a frontal assault on standards. I agree that you can bring 2 or 3 males to the show, but only one should reach VA. Saw that with Erasmus/Esto Van Noort... Esto stayed back, but reproduced as well as Erasmus. Same with Furbo Degli Achei whose brother, Floro, was as good a producer as he...

The SV has chosen to market a product as opposed to be stewards of the breed. Remember, the dog MUST work. How did we go from Ober and Ballack to Mondo and Usher?

As to Vello, his appeal is the good working qualities in his pedigree. He already bested Perro
Perro placed V20 at this show, as well as at the 2022 BSZS, while Vello went from V36 at '22 BSZS to V10 at this recent show. Granted, the competition should be stiffer, but given the additions and subtactions (retirements, sales abroad), I like Vello's chances for a surprisingly good showing this weekend.

Vello won't make VA because he wont fit tbe rest of that crowd...he works.


by charlie319 on 10 September 2023 - 22:09

Well... All Remo dogs until V3 Lasso...

Vello came in at V24.

New leader of the SV... Will she clean up the place or just smooth out the wrinkles?

by Haus Kastelir on 11 September 2023 - 02:09

Hi this is official results on BSZS 2023

by Klossbruhe on 11 September 2023 - 02:09

Can't say I didn't call it....

Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose”—“The more things change, the more they remain the same...


by charlie319 on 11 September 2023 - 07:09

If you look at the pedigrees, the Remo contagion is broad. A complete disservice to the breed.

In my opinion, the SV has propped a specific line (Remo-Opus-Willy-Mundo/Usher?)
The better Remo Line appears to be Remo-Omen-Gary...

I believe that "Remo Free" is about to become a thing.


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