What recent (past 50 years) dogs have disappointed in progeny - Page 1

Being moderately old gives you perspective. Before "The Schism", show and working lines dogs were much closer in temperament and capabilities than they are now... In the long, slow descent, there have been Show Lines breeders who have prized temperament and ability over "conformation"... IMPO, this problem has accelerated over the last decade and a half as dogs are "more compliant" (softer) to the point that trial exercises and conditions have been weakened... Might as well just do a BH and call it good??? We also have seen breeding rules to limit the age of young dogs to reproduce... There certainly have been good specimens like Esko v Danischen Hof, Enzo v Buckhorn Sirio Della Real Favorita, among many... But, there have also been highly touted males, producing large numbers of litters year after year and with a prolific number of progeny out of premium females from the premium breeders in the inner circle of the SV, but proportionally small numbers of V and VA offspring, let alone sons and/or daughters who reproduce aggression. Given this rather loose standard, what studs and dams were good competitors but mediocre to bad reproducers in light of their mates?

My favorite one is 2xVA1 Remo... A good dog in protection himself, produces little in the way of lines to breed to. Theres the Radhaus "O" litter, Pacco and Pepe (out of a Nadelhaus female), Clea D'Ulmental, Lilla v Haus Thallie a Frankengold female and very little else... He was retired from breeding (in Germany at least) at age 6... Highly unusual.

Another was Yello St Michael's Berg, but while he was disappointing in C phase, he reproduced very well in aggression...

Any ideas, theories, etc...

I do not breed near the quantity that some kennels do. Unless you are consistently breeding the same male to several females it would be impossible to determine if that male is producing disappointing progeny.

Where I do have experience is with my most recent purchase. I purchased a female pup that was sired by Mondo. This pup’s dam was sired by ASAP. Those are the two top dogs of 2021.

I watched a video of the evaluation of Mondo’s progeny group. One thing I was surprised with is that 42% of his offspring will be effected by HD. I don’t know if that is a good number or not by breed standards and SV. It is not a good number in my mind. It indicates to me that I have a 42% chance of my money being wasted on this “elite” dog.

Along with the high probability of HD, the dog also has a recessed vulva and weak ears. Her ears are fully erect but flop at the tip when running and playing. It did also take longer for them to stand than I like.

The vet says that the vulva May normalize over time.

It is not possible for me to know which dog or dogs she received these traits from, but yes, there is disappointment somewhere in that pedigree.

I also do not think 42% offspring effected by HD is a good number. I would think the top dog that year should have a much lower number.

Both Mondo (Willy, Opus-Remo) and Asap (Gallina v Frankengols- Remo) carry Remo...

Yes, my dog is a 4-4 line bred on Remo.
I do not know if this is good or bad.
Charlie319, are you saying that the 42% probability of HD in Mondo offspring is due to Remo?
I do not follow the shows and dogs close enough to know which ones are producing what, but Remo is in third line of Mondo. There is a whole bunch of other dogs that it could be coming from. I would think that it is nearly impossible to determine where the high probability is coming from.
Am I wrong?

Charlie319, may I send you a PM?

Sure.