Would love some opinions on this pedigree - Page 1

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/para.utkoma?fadir=546279&modir=654842

I would like some opinions on this pedigree, I am looking for a schutzhund dog/companion. Fairly new to the breed have a 2 year old WL male, loving schutzhund with him. Same breeder as my current dog, slightly different lines.

 How serious are you about Schutzhund?

Personally I would not go with this for a schtuzhund companion. Neither parents are titled.

The mother is 9 years old and doesn't even have a BH, let alone a SchH1-3. Not even a personal protection title, listed as a police dog, nothing.

The father is 8 years old with also no titles. Also does not have any health testing listed. Which is a huge no no IMO.
Unless you know the owners and these dogs do in fact have the health testing and the titles but their pedigrees have not been updated. Or you have seen the dogs work and they do not have titles because of an injury or something,Then I would personally say no thanks. 

Not having a title on a dog can mean a few things. Either the handler is incompetent. The dog has either no drives, or too much drives so the handler cannot harness them. Or the dog is injured. Not having enough drives, and having too much drive are often large reasons in a dog not earning titles. I've seen way to many handler and canine teams playing on the schutzhund fields who cannot control their dog to save their life. That IMO is against the standard and is not a dog you want as a schutzhund hobby dog or a companion. Its not a working dog because the dog either cannot do the work because it doesn't have the drive, or it cannot do the work because it has so much that it cannot even think properly.

You have to find that happy medium.


I want dogs who have proven themselves.

Just my personal thoughts.

Good luck in your search!

 Pedigree, grandparents back, is full of titles. Maybe the current owner of sire and dam is not in to competition.

Don't get too hung up on titles. Many are 'midnight specials', so I am told....

Also, I disagree with the comment, '...not even a PP..' 

IMHO many titled sport dogs are INCAPABLE of true protection, so PP should actually be a higher status.

Someone, somewhere, suggested that sport, for more than 3 generations, would lead to the detriment of the breed. Now, if only I could remember who that was?

How does your current male do with schutzhund? I only ask because of the info on the above post seems to be good advice but you must have seen something in your male to consider going back.

To the above poster:
You think the lack of titles of the parents out way the rest of the pedigree? I am a beginner and ask questions to learn and you seem to give direct answers and that is great thanx.  

Sorry the above poster comment is referring to SchaeferhundSchH
Reggie

The reason I am considering going back to the same breeder is mostly because my current male (same breeder) is awesome! Super slow to mature but has great drive and is an absolute joy to work! No these breeders aren't into competition, other than there own dogs most dogs in the pedigrees are titled. I was looking for some opinions on whether or not this would be a nice cross of lines. I don't really think the parent HAVE to have titles to produce nice dogs with lots of potential.

I try to learn about pedigrees and what dogs to look for. Alot of the dogs people comment about are in your dogs pedigree. Also when I view studs and people selling working pups I see alot of the dogs in your pedigree. So in my ignorant way of thinking it appears to be a good ped. And I agree with you parents dont have to be titled but especially with the rest of the pedigree being so strong. ( yoschy, car policia, and what I think are ddr dogs)  But again that is my opionion only a beginner.
Reggie

I love the pedigree for getting a good sport dog, still in every litter there will be better dogs for sport than others, but the genetics on this breeding is very good. I think the bigger issue is WHICH puppy you get if sport is what you wish to do.

 This is a very strong pedigree for sport. I would really question the knowledge of anyone who disagrees. Some of those dogs are very highly regarded. Only one generation is untitled. There are zillions of reasons dogs aren't titled. 

 My reason for wanting titled dogs in the pedigree as well as health tested dogs in the pedigree is because if I am paying money for a dog, I want to make sure I am supporting good breeding practices. I want to get a dog from health tested parents who are more likely to produce healthy puppies. I am willing to pay more upfront to avoid enduring a terrible amount of pain and anguish from an unhealthy puppy with a terrible health problem.

Titles are not everything, no. However it is the first step to proving the dog can do something. Sure there are midnight trials, but that is why you observe the parents in person, or speak with someone of experience who has seen the dog work. Or watch videos. 

Conformation is important to me, so I also want to see a Breed Survey on the parents to make sure the dogs are breeding quality.

I've seen some dogs get told in show and for their breed survey that their German shepherd does not even look like a German Shepherd. I would not want to get a dog out of a parent whose been told by an SV judge that it doesn't look like a German Shepherd. I'm not paying for an ugly mutt. If I am paying money for a pure bred German Shepherd Dog, I want to get quality. I want to support a breeder who takes the time to get to know the ins and outs of the dog. Not shrug off titles because "they aren't competitive".

Then again I've been told I can be a dog snob at times. 

Gemini to answer your question, for my personal dogs, what I intend to do with my dogs, and what I prefer, no the pedigree would not outweigh the fact that the parents are not titled. Usually training in schtuzhund turns into a gateway into the rest of the dog world for German Shepherds. Someone who two years ago only wanted a schutzhund dog, might realize after the dog mature that they have something really spectacular and want to show or maybe breed. They go off and do all of that. Then they have a litter of puppies responsibly with titles. Well it doesn't look very good when you have some dogs in the pedigree who no one felt like titling. 

Serious working dog people who want to go far with their dogs do not buy dogs from untitled parents. I have seen a lot of puppies out of untitled parents but working lines, end up in pet homes because no working homes want those dogs. 

The pedigree is not the only reason you should be buying a dog. You need to look at the parents conformation, their working ability, the puppies conformation, the puppies drives and working ability, etc. 

So no, even if I was considering a puppy out of these parents, the pedigree does not outweigh the lack of titles and health testing.