how hips are surveyed without X-rays? - Page 1

the GSD and other herding dogs were Shepherd and Farmers dogs.
Though there were already classes of people even before our dogs was tasked to do work in farm and field, some owners do not have the finance and capability to have their dogs hips and croups be examined by a Vet or an Animal anatomy expert.
During the phase the topline (particulary the withers up to the croup) had evolved, how was it surveyed that hips are good and which ones arent, without getting the dogs X-rayed?
Have you noticed there are really some good dogs who could squat and "platz" the whole day like they were Sphinxs? While others cannot hold that alert "platz", have their legs spread apart like a frog or a "ballerina", would a dog whois always laying only on one side to another side and having difficulty doing the squat be an indicator he does not have good hips?
Any ideas?

It's not an indicator at all. Rolling over onto one hip is a normal way to lie down. While dogs obviously can and do "sphynx", it's not a position meant for long periods of time. I'd never expect my dog to hold such a position for hours, and rolling onto one hip or the other when stationary for extended periods isn't anything to be concerned about

Back in the day, before xrays there was the palliside wall. If the dogs couldn't scale, they were not bred. The sch test used to be a real test of stamina, endurance etc... an unhealthy, ouchy dog could not hold up to the rigors of the real breed suitability test. Now, of course there are some dogs whose super high pain tolerance would allow them to continue working and training, even with dysplasia.

There's not too many jobs left that could really weed out a dog with bad hips, maybe herding all day or police work.

The only real way, is by xrays and rexray when the dog is older. A dog "good" at 2 with bad hips at 6 likely already has progeny out there. There should be something in place to reward breeders w/o rexray later in the dogs life.

Melissa

You really believe the palisade would rule out dogs with bad hips? My god...there are way too many old-wive's tales out there. A young dog, with enough drive, would easily get over the wall even if it had bad hips. The worst of the worst probably couldn't, but I can guarantee that at a young age, anything with moderate and better (by today's scale) would have ZERO issue scaling the wall as long as the dog had the drive to do it.

Before x-rays, no one cared about hips. Sure, if a dog was bred hundreds of times and at some point people started making connections when off-spring were coming up lame or had other issues at a moderately young age, but it would still be almost impossible to do because you'd need people to be truthful about things and also take possible injury into account.

Even today, only the worst of the worst cases have any kind of physical signs at a young age. Many dogs with moderate dysplasia don't show any kind of physical distress until they're well past their working careers and their sire and dam is probably long gone or retired by then.

Melissa, for some years now our stud dogs have to be x-rayed again ( HD, ED, OCD, including DNA check ) prior to more than 30 studs at one of the "official" university clinics ( no regular vet, and most often not in the neighbourhood, that said, this procedure includes some effort ).
In case the "new" report states HD and/or ED worse than "noch zugelassen" those studs are not allowed to breed any more.
Some males are 2 1/2 years only at that point, but the majority is way older.
Definetely one of the better rules...

Only for the report: I have seen young dogs without hip sockets ( worst case ) performing absolutely well - it´s about drive and pain resistance - the problems start later on ( 5 - 7 years ).

"The wall" doesn´t help - and a "police dog" will drive in the car 90% of it´s duty...

HD x-rays became a rule in my country because there is no way to testify "sound hips" in a young/ young adult dog ( up to 5 years - and dogs of this age preferably are used for breeding...).

Totally agree with BW! I know a breeder whose young imported male that she's paid a lot of money for was doing the scaling wall with no difficulty.

He wasn't quite 2 yet, but someone wanted to breed to him, so she had him x-rayed.

Vet said he had just about the WORST hips he'd ever seen!

She neutered him and found him a pet home on a farm, where he could get lots of exercise to try to keep his muscles strong, as they were all that was supporting the hips! He probably didn't feel any pain because there was no bone to bone contact with the sockets missing.