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by Animal Haven on 21 January 2017 - 02:01
Why is no one asking more questions about this
http://www.tmz.com/2017/01/18/a-dogs-purpose-german-shepherd-abuse-video/
by hexe on 21 January 2017 - 06:01
Don't know where you're at, but lots of people have been asking questions about it, and there are calls for boycotting the film from the animal rights groups. The animal supplier for the film hasn't yet made any statement or explanation.
by Dawulf on 21 January 2017 - 13:01
I'm going to copy/paste a post that was made by someone else on Facebook, that I think sums things up very nicely. Adding in some spaces so it isn't a wall of text.
"I'm going to post something controversial. It's in regards to the "Terrified German Shepherd Thrown" into water for the A Dog's Purpose film. By having my own working dog that is extensively trained and in training for major disaster recovery and urban search and rescue/cadaver ... we have done training in a TON of scary ways. Moving surfaces. Shoddy footing. All the dogs do this training. Helicopter drops? You really think dogs love that at first?!!! Ha. HARD NO. Majority look even more terrified than this dog was... but then they trust their handler and calm down. It's called desensitization.
I do professionally train horses. We do it ALL THE TIME with horses. Horses are TERRIFIED of going past or over so many things, but when we don't let them run and continue asking them to go over it or past it they finally will go over or past it and instantly do this "ohhhhh? That was it? Huh. My bad." And are fine from there on out. Unless a person has a working dog, that's trained to a *professional level*... that they trained and/or regularly work themselves... they are essentially a layman judging a surgeon. It's so so so vastly different. Not only that but a good majority of dogs like a calm support and to be told no, this is okay, we are doing this. If they are coaxed and reassured during the scary moment that can praise them for being scared. It's why you should never coddle your dog in situations like them being terrified of loud noises or fireworks because that is PRAISING them for making the decision to be scared, by coddling then they are getting the signal that "ohhhhh I'm getting positive reinforcement, I am doing the correct reaction, I'm right to be scared", it is NOT reassuring them or helping them.
Now this video could be abuse. It really could. but it absolutely does not give enough information and is very heavily edited. Added to that... We saw a split second of it. The trainer is placing his hand on the dog's head. He's calmly moving, not diving and physically grappling the dog. If you watch it again the dog is scrambling but he's just maintaining a calm hold. He easily could have just threw the dog in but he didn't. We actually do not know about the training that was taken with this. I do know that if the dog was not making improvements to the scenario and not working through it that would absolutely undermine the trust it has for its trainer who put countless hours into the dog, and that no trainer would do that. It could make the dog not usable. He is touching the dog on the side, and just calmly holding, but not letting him run off. He DOES pet the dog. He's reassuring in calm movements. Not looming over the dog but down at his side, aaaaaalllllll these are animal behavioral support. It's him just saying, no, this is okay. It won't kill you.
By immediately stopping at the first sign of the dog being uncomfortable that actually would be detrimental as that would 100% confirm to the dog he was right. It would not be working through the problem. He was waiting for the dog to realize oh hey wait. This isn't killing me. And the dog easily could have made that decision two seconds after the video ends. They could have taken breaks. Who knows how much time was spent? We do NOT.
As for the dog being submerged, yeah, that's definitely not good, but... what about that photographer that made millions off of shots of dogs diving under water after balls? Since the video was cut we can't assess anything. At all. If you see dogs getting baths, or having their nails cut, or having to take a pill they freak out even more than this. We think nothing of continuing to give them baths or pills or cut their nails though. But they could be terrified right then. Is that massive animal abuse? As I said... We don't know. People should absolutely put away the torches and pitchforks. If that dog truly didn't want to be there and really was terrified out of his head the trainer would not have been able to hold him. Not even close. He's placing the dog. lifting him out. holding calmly then trying again. I've seen worse battles from people trying to bathe their dogs. Not only that but another trainer in the pool was conveniently cut out and the pool also had a scuba diver and multiple platforms. Don't allow click bait journalism and fear mongering to create assumptions in your head. It's detrimentally effectively ruining a movie that was helping dogs and advocating rescues and adoption."
"I'm going to post something controversial. It's in regards to the "Terrified German Shepherd Thrown" into water for the A Dog's Purpose film. By having my own working dog that is extensively trained and in training for major disaster recovery and urban search and rescue/cadaver ... we have done training in a TON of scary ways. Moving surfaces. Shoddy footing. All the dogs do this training. Helicopter drops? You really think dogs love that at first?!!! Ha. HARD NO. Majority look even more terrified than this dog was... but then they trust their handler and calm down. It's called desensitization.
I do professionally train horses. We do it ALL THE TIME with horses. Horses are TERRIFIED of going past or over so many things, but when we don't let them run and continue asking them to go over it or past it they finally will go over or past it and instantly do this "ohhhhh? That was it? Huh. My bad." And are fine from there on out. Unless a person has a working dog, that's trained to a *professional level*... that they trained and/or regularly work themselves... they are essentially a layman judging a surgeon. It's so so so vastly different. Not only that but a good majority of dogs like a calm support and to be told no, this is okay, we are doing this. If they are coaxed and reassured during the scary moment that can praise them for being scared. It's why you should never coddle your dog in situations like them being terrified of loud noises or fireworks because that is PRAISING them for making the decision to be scared, by coddling then they are getting the signal that "ohhhhh I'm getting positive reinforcement, I am doing the correct reaction, I'm right to be scared", it is NOT reassuring them or helping them.
Now this video could be abuse. It really could. but it absolutely does not give enough information and is very heavily edited. Added to that... We saw a split second of it. The trainer is placing his hand on the dog's head. He's calmly moving, not diving and physically grappling the dog. If you watch it again the dog is scrambling but he's just maintaining a calm hold. He easily could have just threw the dog in but he didn't. We actually do not know about the training that was taken with this. I do know that if the dog was not making improvements to the scenario and not working through it that would absolutely undermine the trust it has for its trainer who put countless hours into the dog, and that no trainer would do that. It could make the dog not usable. He is touching the dog on the side, and just calmly holding, but not letting him run off. He DOES pet the dog. He's reassuring in calm movements. Not looming over the dog but down at his side, aaaaaalllllll these are animal behavioral support. It's him just saying, no, this is okay. It won't kill you.
By immediately stopping at the first sign of the dog being uncomfortable that actually would be detrimental as that would 100% confirm to the dog he was right. It would not be working through the problem. He was waiting for the dog to realize oh hey wait. This isn't killing me. And the dog easily could have made that decision two seconds after the video ends. They could have taken breaks. Who knows how much time was spent? We do NOT.
As for the dog being submerged, yeah, that's definitely not good, but... what about that photographer that made millions off of shots of dogs diving under water after balls? Since the video was cut we can't assess anything. At all. If you see dogs getting baths, or having their nails cut, or having to take a pill they freak out even more than this. We think nothing of continuing to give them baths or pills or cut their nails though. But they could be terrified right then. Is that massive animal abuse? As I said... We don't know. People should absolutely put away the torches and pitchforks. If that dog truly didn't want to be there and really was terrified out of his head the trainer would not have been able to hold him. Not even close. He's placing the dog. lifting him out. holding calmly then trying again. I've seen worse battles from people trying to bathe their dogs. Not only that but another trainer in the pool was conveniently cut out and the pool also had a scuba diver and multiple platforms. Don't allow click bait journalism and fear mongering to create assumptions in your head. It's detrimentally effectively ruining a movie that was helping dogs and advocating rescues and adoption."
by Sunsilver on 21 January 2017 - 16:01
Saw the refutation of this on FB last night, by the director. The dog apparently had previously been in the water, and not had a problem with it. But this particular day, he decided NOT to work. Then, they cut to footage of him in the water on another occassion, leaving the viewer to ASSUME he was thrown in.
The footage of him resisting was shot over a YEAR ago, and they wait until NOW to bring it out?? Dirty, dirty pool...someone cared more about blackballing the movie than about the dog's rights!
Humane society officer were on the set with the animals during shooting, and there was never a problem!
Sounds like PETA at work, to me...
The footage of him resisting was shot over a YEAR ago, and they wait until NOW to bring it out?? Dirty, dirty pool...someone cared more about blackballing the movie than about the dog's rights!
Humane society officer were on the set with the animals during shooting, and there was never a problem!
Sounds like PETA at work, to me...
by vk4gsd on 21 January 2017 - 20:01
PETA is irrelevant, so is the stupid Facebook excerpt. We are not idiots, well not all of us.
The clip speaks for itself, I don't care where the trainer placed his hand on the dog.
This is poor training, poor preparation, poor management.
the trainer, director, film company.....need to stop trying slime their way out with excuses.
send a message, boycott the movie.
The clip speaks for itself, I don't care where the trainer placed his hand on the dog.
This is poor training, poor preparation, poor management.
the trainer, director, film company.....need to stop trying slime their way out with excuses.
send a message, boycott the movie.
by hexe on 21 January 2017 - 21:01
Abuse? No, not by a long shot.
Stupid? Yes. Unnecessary? Yes. Avoidable? Absolutely.
Stupid? Yes. Unnecessary? Yes. Avoidable? Absolutely.
by Hundmutter on 22 January 2017 - 08:01
@ Dawulf: 
JMO, you are probably 'spot on' with your entire post.
And the ability to edit film is a terrific advantage - for BOTH 'sides' in any argument.
Of course, whether the movie itself is a load of unadulterated smaltz is a separate issue !
by Noitsyou on 23 January 2017 - 22:01
A dog getting a bath or retrieving balls under water are not the same as a dog going under in a whirlpool. That's like comparing waterboarding to taking a shower. Yeah, it's all just water. Since this isn't about life and death, these movie dogs are not the same as K9s, or MWDs or SandR, how much danger is OK for an animal to face for a movie? How much fear should it feel while making a movie?
by LadyBossGSD on 28 January 2017 - 22:01
I watched the clip & while I'm FAR from being a professional I get the feeling theses handlers/Trainer wasn't either. The dog was clearly in fear for its life & at what expense should people put animals through for entertainment purposes? Thus is the reason why I'm not big into the Hollyweird scene. I know how the tend to freak out with nail clippers ect , but this seemed different the dog appeared to be going under. I'm not one of those owners who shelter/baby the dog to death either. I know everyone has their own opinion on this issue & that's cool too.
by vk4gsd on 28 January 2017 - 22:01
I am old enough to verify that not all opinions are equally valid, shit is shit no matter what yr opinion of shit is.
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