Update on Ice... - Page 2

What a shame. He is such a good looking dog. He is awfully lucky to have ended up with you or his fate may have been a very unpleasant one. Good luck with your future pup.

I am the person that bred Ice.

Jyl was offered a replacement puppy and she refused. (This is all I am bound to do as per our sales contract. A contract that I allowed her to negotiate the terms of prior to her buying the puppy.)

I even went as far as offering to Jyl that she could help me choose the sire of the next litter for her replacement puppy. 

Jyl was offered a puppy even prior to any sort of diagnosis concerning his lameness. I did this because I felt bad that she was having problems with him and told her that she could even have a puppy if Ice's lameness went away.  

I offered to buy Ice back from Jyl for the full purchase price. She refused.

What Jyl did ask is that, I refund her money, let her keep Ice, and do "what I think is best concerning her vet bills." (HUH???)

The food that Jyl is presently feeding Ice (Earthborn Holistic Lamb Grain-Free) is the food that I told her to put Ice on last year when he started having poop issues. Poop issues that, according to her, amounted to a solid poop once a day and then a less than solid poop as his second poop. Earthborn Lamb Grain-Free is one of the foods he ate at my house prior to him leaving here and he had zero issues when eating it. Hmmm.....seems like Ice wouldn't have had to go through some of the misery he went through if he had been on this food all along? 

Now concerning his lameness, there has been no diagnosis made by any doctor, other than one who refuses to talk to me, to say that the transitional vertebrae Ice has is the definitive cause of his periodic lameness. Jyl's regular vet completely washed his hands of any diagnosis concerning this and I have a voice mail from him to prove it. The second vet that saw him, the vet that took the shitty x-rays of Ice's hips, is, supposedly, the vet who made this diagnosis, but, refuses to speak to me. Jyl's third vet is a verterinary radiology specialist. He told me, as we already knew, that it could be a cause of lameness, rarely if ever is, and we woud be able to make a more definitive assessment after he is 24 months old. This is also what my vet told me and a specialist from the University of Wisconsin Veterinary School that looked at the radiographs.

Enough said!

(Yes, Ice has been checked for lyme, as it is prevalent in her area of the country.)

Nice formed stool followed by loose stool sounds like IBS, or UC or malabsorption or SIBO....all of which can have many triggers- sometimes it's genetic and sometimes it's acquired and auto-immune and sometimes bacterial/parasitic. I would assume all avenues have been explored, but that, to me, is a big clue as to what may be the problem. Being prone to yeast infections as described is also a clue that there's an auto-immune issue going on. I was the one who suggested treating him for Candida. It certainly could not have hurt at that point, was my thinking. 

Any chance these issues started after vaccinations? What was the vaccination protocol as far as what was used, when, and how close to major stressors, etc.? When the fenbendazole was administered, what dose of what product and for how long? This is a very sad situation and I feel terrible for the dog. He has a long life ahead of him. Regardless of bickering between breeder and owner, surely something can improve for Ice and his quality of life? 

Jyl, have you ever tried Platinum's Bio-Sponge? 

Ice is negative for lymes disease....

And for the record Ice is NOT eating Earthborn! As I mentioned in the first post Ice is doing better, with the food allery issues, since I got off of the foods that he was allergic to!

OGBS / Jyl

A beautiful dog, sounds like both of you tried their best, breeder and owner.

Jyl, I´m glad you love him in spite of his interferences - IPO is fun, but a loving and happy dog is much more important. Maybe he is going to become the next FH champion.
The way of life ( and dog ownership ) sometimes is strange.

did OFA check the box for TV or does one need to request an evaluation specifically for TV for OFA to look for it?

In order for this to be about educating the public about the issues, can you answer this? And what about the vaccination protocol, could that have anything to do with auto immune issues?
Can anyone, Jenni maybe, point out the TV in the exray? Thank you.

Something I forgot to mention in my last post.... and this is ALL I am going to say about the conversation between me and Steve ( Ice's breeder). Yes he did offer me a replacement pup... and I asked for a refund instead... as I did not want another pup from these lines... Afterall I have gone thru enough issues and heartbreaks.. I had originally asked for a full refund, and Steve declined as YES I did want to keep Ice since he is part of the family and I have grown attached to him. Then Steve offered half purchase price and I agreed to that.. then a week after he agreed he wanted me to do a Lymes test on Ice before we went any further.. Which I did, and he paid for,. Ice came back NEGATIVE. As for Ice outgrowing this... NOT ONE of the 3 vets (my normal vet, the one who took the second set of xrays, and the Radiologist) and I repeat NOT ONE of them said anything about "waiting until 2 -2.5 years old)...  The breeder and I emailed back and forth and spoke on the phone for months about Ice and his health issues, as well as the "refund" that is mentioned.

 Ice does not have periodic lameness... as I mentioned he does notT move correctly on his left rear leg. He has a limp with each step of that leg and an "off gait". When he moves he will swing that leg outwards instead of tracking straight forward... hope this makes sense??

His stool issues are better now that he is eating a food he is not allergic too. The first poop Ice had here was a cow pie... some would be more formed but always soft and alot of the time would be cow pies... he did not have a normal poop until after I did the allergy test on him. He has also anal sack infections because he did not have normal stools to naturally express them like they should have been. I have not had Ice tested for SIBO.

Yes I did say "do what you think is fair on the vet bills". As I felt that a buyer should have had to spend what I did on a "healthy" pup. Steve said he was not going to pay anything, FINE, as that is not part of the contract... But I will say, that if this would have been one of my pups from my breeding I would have at least offered half.. but that is me. Steve is not legally responsible for any of the vet bills I accrude..

I am DONE commenting about this back and forth between Steve and I as this is NOT why I started this post. I did not mention any of this back and forth between the breeder and I because some things are better kept PRIVATE so that they do not get twisted and spiral out of control like alot of things have here on PDB I just wanted to update on Ice and several people had asked about him.

I will say that I will give Ice a quality and loving home here.. Ice has a great home here despite the fact that he will not be able to do IPO. I love doing tracking and I will mostly do that with Ice along with some AKC OB and Rally..  I may also do some detection work with him..but not quite sure about that yet.

 

 

Joan, I couldn't see the TV it and I couldn't enlarge it and still have it clear enough to tell. I am not an expert on TV. It definitely can affect movement as it sets the pelvis at an odd angle. Some say unilateral HD is more common in dogs w/TV. 

Joanro,

Yes OFA will automatically check the box for TV.

I can not get my computer to cooperate with me... so I will try to describe where the TV is.... if you look at his lower spine you will see the 2 "horn" looking things on one of his vertebra right by his pelvis... the very next vertebra towards his tail is the TV.

Soft stools, cow piles can be EPI.  I just lost my dearly beloved GSD and am not over it and will never be, but I am healing a speck at a time.

She had EPI that I was able to easily control with food and special supplements.

Every so often I had blood sent to TX A&M to check several items including B12 levels.  Some vets have not a clue about EPI and the test could also prove that she needed the supplements.  We did lots of wild things together.

Current dog has three problems that prevent us from doing wild things together.  One is due to abuse she will not retreive.  She has a bone issue that might cost me $10k to fix, but I may have found an internal cancer that I am going to check out this week before we try the expensive issue.

I had such great plans for this dog, but my hard earned dollars have gone to try to make her well or better.  I have been in livestock ever so long and best plans do not always work.

My last new van came with some problems.

When I was hatched, I came with problems and also some wonderful things.

Not every dog in a litter is going to be perfect.  The race horse Secretartic never produced another colt like him, I believe. Bet the stud fee was huge!!!