Temperament Test for CHIC - Page 5

The point is can it be trained?  Is the temperament issue so catastrophic as to make the dog not breed worthy?

My dog as an example.  He wasn't just dog aggressive, he was aggressive period.  He had to be taught to let strangers groom him (petting was ok, grooming was not).  The whole idea of a stranger groping his testicles he was not on board with at all, but he learned to tolerate them.  ANd he did go KKl 1

Yes it would have been nice to not have to deal with that temperament issue. but he also produced some very serious police dog offspring. 

It was worth noting that he was aggressive but that with training, it was controlled.  Would you rather that he have no aggression?

I'd rather have a dog I didn't have to teach not not bite people or other dogs. Natural born aggressive GSD's are not for me, but I understand why you would not consider it a fault and would breed for it. A dog like that would not make it long in my world, no longer than my dogs would last in yours.

Yes, there is a big range within our breed, but that´s what makes the versatility of our dogs.
At the end it´s about control and "does this dog fit my needs?"

I really liked Smiley`s comment: ( Titles ) Just another piece of the puzzle to be used as a whole....more of a tool for us to contnually test and challenge our breeding dogs in and out of test situattions to continually assess their worth..

That´s it in a nutshell. We ( the breeders, owners ) need to be honest about our own dogs. We need to test/proof them, that said we need to train them, and we are the ones who know if we achieved any "title" ALTHOUGH our dog lacks temperament and /or drives. AT THAT POINT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE BREEDER IS ASKED. I really like people who are honest enough to say: " Okay, my dog passed the breed survey, but I don´t breed him/her, because I don´t think he/she is breed worthy."
Over here a lot of dogs pass the breed survey, but only a few of them ever have a litter. ( We are no angles, over here dogs are bred who shouldn´t be bred, too, that´s no secret, but as a whole we don´t believe that every dog that passed a breed survey needs to be bred ).

RESPONSIBILITY OF THE BREEDER

Blitzen,

Make no mistake, I would rather have not had to teach him that.  Unfortunately true aggression is needed in the breed and its very tough to have genetics that compartamentalize it for us.  So then we rely on training to finish the job.

If it can't be trained and harnessed correctly, then it becomes too big an issue to deal with and they should fail.  

I can't remember who mentioned bringing the temperament test to us, but I sincerely thank you for getting me out of the box.  I was unhappy about it being a CHIC requirement and the inaccessibility of it all that I hadn't taken time to really find a solution.  Well, my SO caught wind of it and he jumped on the phone and in less than 24 hours, we had a GSDCA temperament tester scheduled to come to Ohio to perform the test.  And I don't know this to be true for certain, but I'm wondering if the reason for having their own instead of using the national network already in play is because aggression is allowed in GSDs if it is in the proper setting.  So they expect the dog to react accordingly to threats vs non-threats.  The more I research the test, the more I am beginning to understand it.  At any rate, we have one scheduled near Springfield, OH on Oct 13th and still have a few slots open.  Again, thanks for a great discussion and for the suggestion to have our own!

Blitzen - Your explaination of the Test was most helpful.   Question on the last portion (to any and all), reaction to stranger threatening:

What would the judge be looking for?  

Rose, I am confident, would be fine for all but this area.  Not sure if her reaction is what is expected.   Based on my understanding of Rose, this is what I would expect her reaction to be.  What do you think?

        Stranger approaching in a threatening manner - Rose would put herself between me and the stranger.  Nothing more.

        Stranger close to me threatening - Rose would start pushing me back with her body.  Maybe bark at the stranger, more likly to start "talking/whining".  If the stranger continued to threaten me, Rose would then start pushing them away with her body with lots of talking.    In all of this, she would probably  not  bark or show any "aggression."   I call it passive deterance from her.   I honestly do not know what she would do if the situation would continue to escalate.  I really cannot see her getting all aggressive and snarlly though.

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FawnD, this is from the link I posted above. These are the responses that a tester looks for when the dog meets strangers.

Mufman, I am pretty sure you are correct, the responses expected from a GSD are not always going to match those expected from let's say a Lab or a Golden. A GSD with a correct temperament per the breed standard would never be expected to run up to a stranger and  beg to be petted. I can  understand why the GSDCA won't accept the "other" test as a substitute for theirs.

Great to know that you were able to schedule a test so quickly. Let us know how it works out for the dogs that are entered. Have fun!

Interesting.   I am confident Rose would pass.  This is for CHIC, right?     What website has the schedule dates and locations?