Why does AHBA [herding group], if they really mean it, want a connection to schutzhund/ BH/ IPO? - Page 1

Dear List,

I saw something on a thread that AHBA wants some kind of connection with the schutzhund world.  I have done herding and my current dog has her BH.  But there are not that many GSDs in herding in my area.  In fact my one or two GSDs often are the only GSDs in a trial.  Often I am asked, "Can GSDs really herd?"  I respond by asking them the name of my breed?  The answer is "Oh!"

On the other hand I can just see a kelpie or a Border Collie getting a SCH H III !!!  Not that they cannot.  Yes, there are Tervs and Bel Sheepdogs who can do both.  And other big breeds are in  herding.  Some people that that a dog who has schutzhund work will not do well in herding, as no gripping and no taking down of sheep, or goats, or ducks, or geese, or turkeys, etc.

Just wondering.  Thanks for any help!

 

Probably to get an FCI connection to be able to hold internationally recognized "French style" herding trials.

Christine

I don´t see the problem - herding dogs are working dogs, so they should be part of the " working dog community ".
SV does recognize the HGH title instead of the IPO title prior to breeding.

The AWDF is supposed to be a "working dog" federation not a "biting dog" or IPO federation.

What the others have said. AHBA promotes herding breeds herding. AWDF promotes working breeds working and is an open door to FCI trials.
I think it is great!

I have working line german shepherds - I have been to the AHBA herding trials..........First there is "racism" with that group when it comes to the working line german shepherd doing herding in "their" world...............   They are not use to such powerful dogs..................  Even one of the judges told me - that flunked my girl - said She would be awesome and she had it - but this organization just cant handle a dog like this....................

The female that I was just trying to do a HIC on is not the top of the food chain when it comes to Schutzhund............She is adiquate..........but when I brought her out - the judges were actually frightened of her..............They would let the other dogs off lead to do the HIC - but with my girl - they would not..................   We had been training with a trainer on sheep and just decided to go do this.............   The way she was treated was rediculous...................   She passed................and is a great herding dog..............but what the crap..........I have never seen judges so frightened of a working dog..................     So I have to say - if they are trying to partner up - they need to change a little..................

Yogie

It's not that the organization can't handle the GSD, it's that none of the tests held by AHBA are designed with the GSD's drives and instincts in mind. And arena trialing, unfortunately, often is won by the dog with the most obedience and the least drive and instinct. It's very, very hard for a GSD to work in an arena setting. My dogs are affecting the sheep the moment they walk into the gate.

I think the French trials are supposed to be more GSD friendly--but I haven't studied up on it yet. Here's some info about it:

http://bsca.info/french-style-herding/

http://www.briardworld.com/herding/trialrules.html

Christine

 

I have put up MANY posts on this forum related to such a topic, with Susie clarifying rules when needed.  The AHBA wants access to FCI judges, trialing events and titles, not offered within the continental United States by any other organiaztion, that also REQUIRE the dog to have a scorebook and recognition of the organization to offer FCI herding style events (having the scorebook by itself is not sufficient).  As noted above, it must be stated that the AWDF is not only exclusive to "bite-work based dog sports" and can include a wide range of FCI trial events and breed survey eligable titles that that americans are simply not familiar with in any way. 

This includes the following titles (just a sample):

-HGH (Herdengebrauchshund)
-Le Brevet de Travail sur Troupeaux (certificate of work on the flock);
-Le Certificat d’Aptitude au Championnat de Travail sur Troupeaux (certificate of aptitude for championship of work on the flock) and Reserve;
-Le Championnat de Travail sur Troupeaux (championship of work on the flock);
-FCI-HWT (Herding Working Test)
-International Sheepdog Trial (Traditional or Collecting style)
-RH (rettungshunde)
-IPO-R (rescue dog trial)
-IPO-FH (tracking)
-IPO-NS (nordic style)

There are many more, I didn't include any of the FCI recognized Earth Dog, Hunting or Agility titles.

http://www.fci.be/uploaded_files/53-2013-annex-en.pdf

Also in a Europe it is my understanding is that a dog needs to earn a working title before it can earn a show title, HOWEVER, that "wroking title" need not be exclusively IPO/Schutzhund.  Better yet, ask the folks at AHBA directly yourself, they have a yahoo user group forum talking about what they are EXACTLY trying to accomplish

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AHBA/conversations/topics/12175

Here are all the previous topics on this forum where this subjet was touched upon:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=747152-ipor-title

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=748235-how-does-the-hgh-compare-to-akc-ccourse-herding

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/forum.read?mnr=651339-can-rescue-get-a-gsdcawda-scorebook--or-do-they-need-to-get-it-from-somewhere-else&pagen=1

http://is.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=731178-do-awdf-score-books-still-need-to-be-stamped-by-usca&pagen=1

Also YogieBear and BlackthornGSD are correct, I have seen sheep not broken on GSD's (nor any other big upright dog for that matter), kill themsleves trying to run away, slaming into something right out of the pen, all from a dog that was not even chasing them, whom was just looking in thier direction.

No further comments?