croups - Page 1

Ah !  Well, this is one of those conformation points where
the subjective opinions of what people 'see' comes in.
For instance, the UK Kennel Club Standard asks for:
 
"The topline runs without any visible break from the set of
the neck, over the well-defined withers, falling away slightly
in a straight line to the gently sloping croup.  The back is firm,
strong and well-muscled.  Weak, soft and roach backs highly
undesirable and should be heavily penalised.  Croup slightly
sloping and without any break in the topline, merges imperceptibly
with the set on of the tail. Short, steep or flat croups highly 
undesirable."

The FCI / WUSV and the AKC Standards are not so very differently
worded.

However, and this has improved a bit in recent years, not only could
the "Alsatianists" in Britain see a distinctly different type of structure
from this, in producing their type of animal rather than the International/
Germanic dogs  (in American terms, WGSL), many of their dogs for
years and years had back ends that looked for all the world like the
edge of a table,  so 'flat' were the croups.  Now obviously you do not
want to go the complete opposite way from that situation, or you end
up with dogs which have much too low a tail set ('clamped' effect, too),
excessive hind angulation, and a steeply angled pelvis and the muscle
over it, which at its most extreme looks as though there's a cliff-top
behind the point of the Ilium, with the 'cliff' falling away below it.

But within the description of 'gently sloping' there is a range of correct
angulation of the hindquarters and a proper tail set that should, as
described in the excerpt above, "merge imperceptibly".  And that slight
range is where the differences of preference of actual slope, length and
angle seem to lie.  You can talk all night about correct degrees of angle,
etc -  ref. back to that long thred between Ibrahim and Louis Donald, I
think they covered croups, along with every other possible measurement ! -
but in the end, what another breeder 'sees' / thinks is 'right' may not be
exactly the same as what you believe 'correct'.  There are lots of illustrations
in the breed books of how it is supposed to look;  but on the actual dog, it
can be very much a matter of personal opinion, the differences being miniscule.

This is one reason why you can get differing critiques on the same dog from
two judges at Shows held very closely together in time.

I would add that the photo of Taz in my avatar looks like he has a bit of a
'steep' croup - but it's probably too small for you to see clearly !  Actually
I think that photo makes him look steeper than he is, in actuality;  some-
thing to do with the way he is standing.  But I accept he is not perfect in
that department !  [May be thrown out by his extra height ?]

The tail set tells the tale .

Overrated!

I personally feel the croup of my sable is excellent. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=343309-ronaldo-von-arlett     http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/picturegallery.viewgroup?gid=39643

Hi Vonissk,

Croup evaluation consists of two parts: Length and angle. To develop your ability to evaluate croups of various dogs you need first to learn to define where exactly the croup starts and where it ends. Croup end at the start of the tailset and is easy to locate.
For locating where it starts, It is always good to run both your hands on both sides of the spine, start from center of the spine and move your hands towards the rear. Before the hip joint they will meet a protruding bone (Pin bone), move about 1 cm backwards and  that is the start of the pelvis or croup.

Croup length = the region extending from the carnial crest of the ileum "oin bone" to the most caudal portion of the ischial tuberosity "ramus"







 

It is also easy to pin point the start of the croup when looking at a GSD from the side when in stack. Move your eye along the topline starting from withers and moving slowly towards the rear, when you see abrupt change in the topline slope somewhere at the start of the thight then that is the start of the croup.

Examples







 

Both above dogs have longer croup than this one

All above dogs have longer croup than this one

More examples