Help!!! White legs from these bloodlines???? - Page 1

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by khlewis on 19 July 2013 - 14:07

I had a litter born in the early hours of the morning. It was a litter of 15!!!  Well, the smallest pup has white all the way up her front legs and on her back feet. I've had a few litters where a couple pups would have white toes (not from these parents) and those would eventually grow out. Here is the pedigree for this litter. Has anyone else seen this from these bloodlines??? http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/breeding.result?father=1331345&mother=671644
(Lineage Edit: Makes Link Clickable)

 

by khlewis on 19 July 2013 - 14:07

And before anyone asks: No, there is no possibility that another male got to my female. She was kept indoors and walked on a leash only while she was in heat. 

by Hukka on 19 July 2013 - 15:07

Yes, Mambo and Fatyma combo has produced it before. And I said "combo" as not to blame any one dog. There has been puppies from this combo with large white on chest and paws.

EuroShepherd

by EuroShepherd on 19 July 2013 - 15:07

Is this the only puppy in the litter with white legs? 
I think it is more likely due to the pup's development in utero rather than genetic.  Going only from this one photo, the GSD pup does seem pretty small and lacking in overall development for a newborn.  
Without going into all the scientific reasons (mostly because I don't have the time to search through my stuff right now to get all the terminology correct.)  The pup had some minor difficulties while growing in utero and an insufficient number and type of pigment cells simply did not reach the legs/paws during the development stage which they are distributed.  
 
Just to note to other readers who may not know;  there are many, many causes for white on paws/legs/chest/tail tip, etc.  Most commonly they are genetic, there are several different pattern genes that can cause white in these areas in canines (and the GSD breed does not possess all of these types of genes.)  
However sometimes white is not caused by genetics but by environmental effects that occur while the fetus is growing.  They can be from exposure to toxins (drugs/natural & synthetic chemicals/etc.) from injury to the fetus or from lack of nutrients (most likely in this case due to the litter size and it's placement in the uterus.)   During the fetus early stages there are cells that are distributed throughout the body that are precursors to pigment cells, they travel out from an area that is approximately the back of the head of the fetus.  The last places that they reach is the forechest, tip of tail and toes, sometimes they just don't make it.  The distribution of these cells occurs during a very specific time frame, if anything at all is interfering with the fetus while it developes then this can affect how far those precursor cells travel.  


khlewis (and anyone else who gets a pup like this in a litter) I would highly recommend that this puppy never be allowed to be bred from, despite the white paws/legs likely NOT caused by genetics, it's own DNA has probably suffered damage during development and has a higher likelihood of causing mutations or RNA switches that may negatively affect it's own progeny if it should have any.   The pup itself may still be a good pet or working dog though.  

GSD Lineage

by GSD Lineage on 19 July 2013 - 15:07

This happens every once in a while from solid parents. It can be a developmental thing, or most like the KIT gene, a highly mutable area of the genome responsible for white spotting in many animal species. Only if you seek out extensive testing will you get to the bottom of it. However, I will say it happens quite a bit, yet more often with less white than your pup has. If you wait a while, the other members of pedigree database may have input for you as well.
Eila vom Mecklenburger Bolz

Eila vom Mecklenburger Bolz





 

by khlewis on 19 July 2013 - 16:07

Thank you for the replies!  This pup will def only be going to a pet home with limited AKC and a spay contract. Should I be concerned about any health problems with her in the future??  She is about half the size of the largest pup in the litter. 

dragonfry

by dragonfry on 19 July 2013 - 17:07

I saw a cane corso recently with a "splash" of colorless hair and skin from her upper lip through her chin and down her throat. Sort of like a dash of albinism. The rest of the dog was a rich black brindle. And this was not a normal white patch, like you often see on throats and chest. It simply lacked all pigments.
Maybe your pups has such a condition? Just an odd splash of albino legs. I'd be curious to see if she develops black pads or if they stay pink. Only time will tell if there are other problem associated with odd markings.
Check for cleft pallet, watch for normal eye development.
And hope for the best! 15 is a huge pile of puppies.

by Nans gsd on 19 July 2013 - 17:07

OOOOOOH my gosh;  you are going to have your hands full.  I would definitely supplement her for now if you are not opposed to doing so since she is so small.  Could you PLEASE keep us posted on the outcome of all,  but most definitely this little girl.  Not sure about the lineage but know a little about albino's etc.  Good luck and hopefully all will be healthy.  Nan

by khlewis on 19 July 2013 - 18:07

Thanks for your input everyone!!  I will be supplementing a few of the pups in this huge litter and ill keep everyone updated as this little girl matures some!
 

Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 19 July 2013 - 20:07

Time will tell, Khlewis. In a litter of 15, having one pup roughly half the size of the largest is certainly not unheard of and doesn't necessarily, by itself, mean this pup will not be healthy. I'd definitely keep a close eye on her, but it may simply be a case of limited resources in utero. 





 


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