puppy tests - indicative or BS?? - Page 1

have not read the article personally but Lance Collins wife apparently wrote a technical paper on testing young puppies to predict how they might be as working dog  adults. what i can determine second hand is that apart from extreme faults testing young puppies is pretty much useless???

apologies if i have got the point of the paper wrong or any other details about the paper, i don't think it freely accessible?

forget the paper tho, young puppy testing eg 5 & 7 weeks - is it just a delusion we all engage in or not???

At 7 weeks a lot can be noticed about a litter of puppies.
Some are more confident and have more energy than others.
Some will follow the pack, others are more independent.
Some are more dominate others are submissive.
Some have more food drive or prey drive that others.
With many of these puppies, these tenancies don't change as they become dogs.









 

I would like to see more input on this topic from our resident breeders.

I think BS. Yeah, alot can be observed with a litter of puppies when they are 6-7 weeks old but to say that these things are indicitive to who and what the pup is going to grow into is ridicules.
There are so many things that can and do happen in a dogs life that actually mold the dog into who and what it will be.

Before I brought Star home at 12 weeks, I did a test on her similar to the Vollhardt test. I tested dominance/submission by rolling her on her back. I tested her reaction to a can full of pebbles being rolled along the floor (she wanted to play with it) two pots being banged together, prey and hunt drive (reaction to a toy being thrown, then hiding the toy), reaction to a stranger (me, she wanted to follow me and jump up in my lap!) I squeezed the web of her toes to test pain threshold (very important for a working dog!) and a number of other tests I've forgotten.

I would say these tests were close to !00% accurate. I have myself a friendly, confident dog that's gunsure, has lots of prey/play drive (she wanted to 'kill' the toy!) and is almost the 'perfect' dog for service dog work!

Certain things can influence the puppy's development, though. When I bought a Shiloh shepherd pup several years later, she, too, wanted to play with the toy, and showed good prey drive. However, she tested very high in submission. As a result of that, she refused to retrieve, as there were two adult dogs in the household that were dominant over her, and she always let them take the ball first. This was even though she had retrieved the ball during the temperament test, and tried to retrieve the can of pebbles! (she couldn't quite get her mouth around it.)

That sort of confirms BS sunsilver.
What was demonstrated as a pup, did not carry over as an adult.
My pups are born and raised in the home. Handled and "dealt with" on a daily basis.
Almost all puppies have an intense food drive. Some almost take your fingers off when presented with a nice raw meatball, but these grow into the same dogs that will sit alongside a kid with a hotdog, right at. Mouth and nose height, and not assault the kid to get it.
Everyone of my pups, lay on the couch with me at some point in their first eight weeks. They get their bellies rubbed and love it.
These too are the same pups that now are working police dogs, or are out doing agility and schutzhund.
I think a puppy buyer/owner test would be better,lol

Kitkat, I think instead of showing BS, it shows ENVIRONMENT plays an important role in the pup's development, too. If the Shiloh pup had been raised as an 'only' dog, I'm sure she would have retrieved just fine, as she retrieved the ball several times during the temperament test, and also wanted to retrieve the pop can.

It also shows that if you want a confident dog, do NOT pick one that scores 8/10 on submission on the TT! 

I have not whelped a ton of litters, so these are my observations:
I have, with excellent accuracy, picked appropriate puppies for sport, service and K9 (which I kept until they were ready to start their K9 career). Maybe I have a knack for picking puppies, maybe my tests are right, or maybe I'm just lucky. I don't know, but I think the behaviors shown at 5-7 weeks can be indicative of working ability IF you know how to read the puppies (not necessarily what is written on a test sheet!) It is evaluating all of the behaviors shown together, not as individual behaviors. Environment does play a huge part in the puppy living up to its genetic potential. The dam plays a huge roll as well.

Take it for what its worth.
Melissa

Sunsilver- I was only giving an answer based on the two answer options,lol
I think that for any inexperienced puppy buyer, IF you were to make your decision based solely on some pre-written puppy temp/evaluation test, you 'could' be greatly disappointed.
And Melba, first hand knowledge of the pups is invaluable to a buyer, especially when the breeder is wanng to obtain the best fit, for both pup and buyer.
When you know your dogs and puppies, the breeders insight and input is the best indicator of the right pup.