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by UschiRun on 04 June 2013 - 05:06
Hey guys,
I was just wondering if anyone in England can help me with a question.
Is there such a thing as being registered with the Kennel Club as a breeder, but not being a part of the Assured Breeders Scheme? Any clarification would help. Thanks!!!
Uschi
I was just wondering if anyone in England can help me with a question.
Is there such a thing as being registered with the Kennel Club as a breeder, but not being a part of the Assured Breeders Scheme? Any clarification would help. Thanks!!!
Uschi
by Kaffirdog on 04 June 2013 - 06:06
I do have a breeder number, though I have no idea what it is, I suppose it is allocated when to you when you register your litters to make admin easier, but it is the dogs that are registered with the kennel club, not the people. You could always email the Kennel Club and ask them.
Margaret N-J
Margaret N-J
by UschiRun on 04 June 2013 - 07:06
If you go onto the Kennel Club's website, you can select a breed, then look up the Assured Breeders in the area of your choosing. Their personal names are listed, but what is registered is the Kennel that they own. My question is if a breeder can be registered (as in, the Kennel that they own is registered), but NOT belong to the Assured Breeder Scheme.
So, to be a breeder that's part of the Kennel Club: all breeders are registered, but not all registered breeders are Assured Breeders. Does that make more sense?
So, to be a breeder that's part of the Kennel Club: all breeders are registered, but not all registered breeders are Assured Breeders. Does that make more sense?
by Kaffirdog on 04 June 2013 - 09:06
I assume you mean if a breeder has an affix (kennel name). That just means they pay the Kennel Club a fee to ensure exclusive rights to a word and nobody else in UK can use that word or a very similar one when naming their puppies. Not everyone who registers their puppies with an affix is an Assured Breeder, I'm not and have no interest in becoming one. The only guarantee you get with an affix is you can always identify the breeder, at least as long as they don't let the payments lapse, in which case the same kennel name may be allocated to another breeder if they apply for it.
Margaret N-J
Margaret N-J
by Hundmutter on 04 June 2013 - 13:06
Margaret, the "Breeders Number" is - or used to be ?-
printed top right of the individual dog's Reg certificate
when the Change of Ownership is completed.
Can be particularly helpful where the pup comes from
a breeder with no Kennel Name / Affix.
Uschirun, anyone advertising litters who uses the term
that they themselves are "KC Registered Breeders" [as
the people who bred your puppy did, in fact] is being
inaccurate, using a sort of 'shorthand' to describe their
situation, and may sometimes be deliberately trying to
mislead the readers.
Belonging to the ABS is a secondary level. One the KC
is keen to encourage; and despite the pros & cons of the
scheme, does usually mean that a certain degree
of standards re the health of their stock are observed, or
can be inspected and acted on if they fail to keep up those
standards. Ordinary breeders are more or less unregulated
[at least by the KC rather than the Law relating to animals],
which is where the research prior to buying a puppy comes
in very necessary, to find out what the level of knowledge and
their kennel conditions are like, whether health tests are done, etc.
printed top right of the individual dog's Reg certificate
when the Change of Ownership is completed.
Can be particularly helpful where the pup comes from
a breeder with no Kennel Name / Affix.
Uschirun, anyone advertising litters who uses the term
that they themselves are "KC Registered Breeders" [as
the people who bred your puppy did, in fact] is being
inaccurate, using a sort of 'shorthand' to describe their
situation, and may sometimes be deliberately trying to
mislead the readers.
Belonging to the ABS is a secondary level. One the KC
is keen to encourage; and despite the pros & cons of the
scheme, does usually mean that a certain degree
of standards re the health of their stock are observed, or
can be inspected and acted on if they fail to keep up those
standards. Ordinary breeders are more or less unregulated
[at least by the KC rather than the Law relating to animals],
which is where the research prior to buying a puppy comes
in very necessary, to find out what the level of knowledge and
their kennel conditions are like, whether health tests are done, etc.
by blackfurbabe on 06 June 2013 - 20:06
Ushi in the UK if your dogs are registered with the KC and you have a litter from them the puppies can be registered providing they do not carry endorsements which the breeder puts on if they want to prior to the puppies leaving them.
If you have a litter even just 1 you are a breeder. You can apply for a kennel name"Affix" for a fee which you pay an initial payment for and then another payment yearly, if you do not keep up the payment you lose your Affix. If you have an Affix it is the first word you use when naming puppies. So if you see this name as the first word in a pedigree you can trace all dogs to that kennel Affix".
Accredited Breeder Scheme is something else you can join for a fee it is mostly for people who breed more than 1 or 2 litters a year, people who do not breed that much also DO in some cases join the scheme. Accredited breeders are supposed to follow recommended guidelines for breeding stock ie health tests hips elbows eyes etc, like others who are not ABS they are not forced to follow the recommended advice, being accredited by the kennel Club means you may have your premises and dogs inspected but they let you know when they are coming so you can get the biscuits in.
In my experience i have found the breeders who have been breeding a long time do not need the stamp of approval "their dogs speak for themselves" IMHO the only way to buy a dog is to go see for yourself if you are a novice take someone with you who knows the ropes.
Breeders themselves are not registered the dogs are.
Also people with stud dogs and no bitches may join the accredited breeder scheme. Pay your money get a badge of approval.You may also buy an Affix and never have a litter.
If you have a litter even just 1 you are a breeder. You can apply for a kennel name"Affix" for a fee which you pay an initial payment for and then another payment yearly, if you do not keep up the payment you lose your Affix. If you have an Affix it is the first word you use when naming puppies. So if you see this name as the first word in a pedigree you can trace all dogs to that kennel Affix".
Accredited Breeder Scheme is something else you can join for a fee it is mostly for people who breed more than 1 or 2 litters a year, people who do not breed that much also DO in some cases join the scheme. Accredited breeders are supposed to follow recommended guidelines for breeding stock ie health tests hips elbows eyes etc, like others who are not ABS they are not forced to follow the recommended advice, being accredited by the kennel Club means you may have your premises and dogs inspected but they let you know when they are coming so you can get the biscuits in.
In my experience i have found the breeders who have been breeding a long time do not need the stamp of approval "their dogs speak for themselves" IMHO the only way to buy a dog is to go see for yourself if you are a novice take someone with you who knows the ropes.
Breeders themselves are not registered the dogs are.
Also people with stud dogs and no bitches may join the accredited breeder scheme. Pay your money get a badge of approval.You may also buy an Affix and never have a litter.
by Hundmutter on 07 June 2013 - 03:06
Bit of an 'aside', but might be useful to someone, somewhere,
doing pedigree research, if I point it out:
Where Blackfurbabe says : "If you see this name as the first word
in a pedigree, you can trace all dogs to that Affix." - may not be
strictly true if you are in a 'cross Pond' situation like Uschi.
She is now back in the States, but bought her pup in the UK.
Not in the case of her pup, this time, but there are situations
in which a Kennel Name in America (registered with AKC ?) is the
SAME as a UK Kennel Affix. But the dogs are completely unrelated.
[Apart from any ancient German imports they might have in common,
of course ! ] 'Sherak' comes immediately to mind, and there are several
others I have noticed, over time.
doing pedigree research, if I point it out:
Where Blackfurbabe says : "If you see this name as the first word
in a pedigree, you can trace all dogs to that Affix." - may not be
strictly true if you are in a 'cross Pond' situation like Uschi.
She is now back in the States, but bought her pup in the UK.
Not in the case of her pup, this time, but there are situations
in which a Kennel Name in America (registered with AKC ?) is the
SAME as a UK Kennel Affix. But the dogs are completely unrelated.
[Apart from any ancient German imports they might have in common,
of course ! ] 'Sherak' comes immediately to mind, and there are several
others I have noticed, over time.
by Kaffirdog on 07 June 2013 - 06:06
Ushi, have you actually found out the reason your pup is not registered? I appreciate someone may have an accidental litter and simply decide not to register for reasons of their own, even though there is no other compelling reason not to. Unless I have got the wrong end of the stick, I understand from one of your earlier posts that you were aware the pup was not registered and this was reflected in her purchase price so it does not suggest you were mislead at the point of sale. If you explain exactly what you are trying to do, it may be possible to give you practical advice instead of telling you bits and pieces that may just be clouding the issue.
Margaret N-J
Margaret N-J
by UschiRun on 07 June 2013 - 11:06
Kaffirdog,
At the time we got her, we had just planned on having her be a normal pet. The breeder suggested that she would be good at both agility and Schutzhund (my pup was one of two out of seven puppies that she felt would be good at that- the rest being pet quality) because of her temperament, intensity, drive, etc. This is the first dog I've ever owned, so I accepted the advice and we took her home. After researching about agility, Schutzhund, dog training, the Kennel Club, and the American Kennel Club, I was hoping to follow her advice to give my pup something to do that would fulfill her and make her happy.
With the Kennel Club, dogs can't compete unless their registered. My girl cannot be registered with the AKC unless it's through PAL, since she's from England. This would require her getting fixed, which I don't really want to do.
Well, two days ago I did get everything sorted out with the breeder. At the time of my girls litter's birth, the dam had yet to be hip scored. This coincides with the information about how this was an unplanned litter, in case people were questioning the validity of whether it was planned or not. Since the litter, the dam has had her x-rays and is waiting for the scores, which the breeder will let me know what they are, so that that way I'll know the scores of both parents. According to the Kennel Club, a litter cannot be registered if the dam had not been hip scored at the time of the birth of the litter. The breeder and I talked at length, and I'm satisfied with our conversation. Also, a breeder cannot be a part of the Assured Breeders Scheme until all of the dogs are hip scored, which the breeder is working to do- as I said, she's waiting on the dams hip scores, at which point she'll be able to put in the paper work to join the Scheme.
My husband and I are going to wait and see how all of her training goes. If she shows real promise, when we go back to the States in 2-3 years, then we will decide then if we want to get her fixed to register her with PAL.
At the time we got her, we had just planned on having her be a normal pet. The breeder suggested that she would be good at both agility and Schutzhund (my pup was one of two out of seven puppies that she felt would be good at that- the rest being pet quality) because of her temperament, intensity, drive, etc. This is the first dog I've ever owned, so I accepted the advice and we took her home. After researching about agility, Schutzhund, dog training, the Kennel Club, and the American Kennel Club, I was hoping to follow her advice to give my pup something to do that would fulfill her and make her happy.
With the Kennel Club, dogs can't compete unless their registered. My girl cannot be registered with the AKC unless it's through PAL, since she's from England. This would require her getting fixed, which I don't really want to do.
Well, two days ago I did get everything sorted out with the breeder. At the time of my girls litter's birth, the dam had yet to be hip scored. This coincides with the information about how this was an unplanned litter, in case people were questioning the validity of whether it was planned or not. Since the litter, the dam has had her x-rays and is waiting for the scores, which the breeder will let me know what they are, so that that way I'll know the scores of both parents. According to the Kennel Club, a litter cannot be registered if the dam had not been hip scored at the time of the birth of the litter. The breeder and I talked at length, and I'm satisfied with our conversation. Also, a breeder cannot be a part of the Assured Breeders Scheme until all of the dogs are hip scored, which the breeder is working to do- as I said, she's waiting on the dams hip scores, at which point she'll be able to put in the paper work to join the Scheme.
My husband and I are going to wait and see how all of her training goes. If she shows real promise, when we go back to the States in 2-3 years, then we will decide then if we want to get her fixed to register her with PAL.
by AmbiiGSD on 07 June 2013 - 11:06
"According to the Kennel Club, a litter cannot be registered if the dam had not been hip scored at the time of the birth of the litter."
Who told you that? The Kennel club will register anything!
For a pup to be registered with the Kennel Club the only requirement is that both it's parents are registered, someones spinning you a line.
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