Judge withholds placings at Champ show - Page 1

I believe that the GSD judge at Southern Counties Championship show withheld the placings in many of the classes.  I hope that this isn't true.

If it is, how disgusting to treat exhibitors this way when they have paid huge entry fees, mega petrol costs, and given up a whole day to drive hundreds of miles to a show to honor the judge.  Not to mention the day beforehand preparing the dogs & weeks prior to the event getting them into shape.

This is all the breed needs now with its dwindling entries at show, and classes being stripped from GSD's all the time.  Many people won't bother with it again, but that's what some people want I guess, as the only way they can win is if there's nobody else in the class.

Any decent judge would place all the dogs in front of them on the day, in order, whatever their faults, only withholding from any exhibit who failed in temperament.  Trying to make political statements at the exhibitors expense is pathetic.

But then again, the fact that the judge drew such a poor entry speaks for itself.  Less than 50 showed up!

 

The problem is I have seen horrible representatives of the breed, after being placed, then have the owners/breeders advertise that this or that dog took first or second in a given show. They don't inform people that only one or two dogs were in class and SINCE the Judge didn't withhold, then they are able to market the poor specimen through the integrity of the show placing. I have seen this happen all too often. The Judge must have the option of withholding placements to non deserving dogs, regardless of fees or exhibitors. The integrity of the Judge must be based on standard and breed, and not public or fees. Jmo!

Less than 50? Was that total entry, or just GSDs? I've been to local shows where NO GSDs were entered!

For the sake of the breed, I'd rather see a judge withhold placements on dogs that clearly aren't deserving.

In the US, at AKC shows, there are 2 schools of thought about withholding ribbons on unworthy specimens.  Some feel as if the right place to do that is in the classes not sending the substandard dogs to the winners class. Others feel as if ribbons should be withheld in the winners class .Here it is left to the judges' discretion as I assume it is in the UK. I agree with Lily in that judges should never use the option to withhold to make a political statement. But some do that or withhold because of the dog's owner/breeder/handler and not because of the lack of merit of the dog.

 

Political statement?  Now, THAT sucks!

Would be interesting to know who the dogs were that had their placings withheld and what success or otherwise they have had at previous shows, compared to dogs that were placed, would probably give a better picture of whether this judge was being political or not.  I have seen at least one dog who I believe had his placing withheld at this show, a fine young typical male with an excellent temperament and I can accept there may have been better dogs put ahead of him, but I certainly can't see any justification for withholding a placing.

From what I have heard, the withheld placings were based solely on type.


Margaret N-J

Years ago the ribbons were withheld by a breeder judge for lack of merit on a young dog I was handling. He said there was something "wrong" with him so he was withholding. He was a big dog, I am  a short person; the dog paced part of the time he was being gaited as do many dogs.  Not unusual at all  in some breeds - this was not a GSD. At any rate, that dog finished his AKC CH in the next 5 shows defeating some of the top winners of the day. For  years all that was remembered about that judge was that he withheld on a top winner for pacing.

Unfortunately Margaret,IMHO.this judge withheld placing because of political reasons.I,m lead to believe,n this DID NOT come from a german type gsd exhibitor in fact it came from someone in another breed who knows a gsd person who is also in her breed.....Question asked was......Why were most of the gsd exhibitors at Southern Counties Championship show wearing T-shirts emblazened with the wording .......ALSATIAN BREED CAMPAIGN?I thought that the word ALSATIAN had been dropped from the breed name...........An exhibitor who was there has stated that anything that had a bit of shape(ie.a slightly sloping backline as to a table top one) or good pigmentation/colour had their place withheld as did one ALSATIAN exhibitor in a puppy class.Now  i,m all for with holding of places if i ,as a judge,feel that the animal DOES NOT conform to the breed standard laid down,or lacks temperament.....is shy,windy,aggressive.I believe there were several Long coats being exhibited,one i know didnt have its place withheld but others that did.....i know this exhibitor personally n can claim these animals imho n most gsd peeps in the UK.are of excellent quality n are from well known top winning/breeding kennels in the UK n these dogs have also had the correct gradings from SV.german judges 4 their age at our regional shows(run on WUSV rules)The judge in question shows english/alsatian type dogs n the main winning animals all stemmed from an exhibitor who the judge is very friendly with n has animals from her kennel.I,m not being vindictive here only stating facts.....n accept she has different views on wot a CORRECT gsd should look like n as she was the judge then she SHOULD judged as she sees fit regardless of wot us germanics think.My main concern with this fraction is that most DONT hip/elbow score,nor do they test their males for haemophilia A as do the german side of the fence.If they do score n the scores are HIGH ,they still MATE regardless of this fact.......Now to the scourge of EPILEPSY.......Their lines due to the fact of inbreeding(one very big kennel,now not so big)nvery closed line breeding in a 5 gen.pedigree.......used 2 follow suit........n now their peds.have 100,s of lines to dogs who had epilepsy,were implicated by pedigree or were proven to be producing it.Now i,m NOT denying it doesnt exist in german lines coz that wouldnt be true.Both sides of the fence sweep inherited conditions under the carpet which i feel is SO WRONG.....but this groups main spokesperson......ALSATIAN BREED CAMPAIGN........states this...........that health is the primary issue but goes on to say.......the simple fact is that the biggest problem in gsds today is THE CURVED BACK?????As regards epilepsy ,until i(carole s.)can produce any sort of scientific validation for inheritance in gsds i should keep quiet about it(my statement re the 100,s of lines in english peds.i presume)The FACTS are that there is no research which bears any kind of correlation in breeding.This person does go on about a lady who traces back pedigrees of affected gsds ,thru.our KC S,breed register books (produced 4 times per yr.) n says her findings are invalid.The arrogance n misleadiing info.on a terrible disease in our beloved breed is nothing but criminal....Carole Spelman Rheinmeister GSDS UK.

Noddi, AKC forbids exhibitors from wearing t-shirts like that in the ring.

If these placements were with held because of political reasons, the Judge shouldn't be Judging and people shouldn't subject their dogs to a review of anyone that ever uses that practice.