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by bubbabooboo on 06 March 2013 - 15:03
http://www.gsdcouncilaustralia.org/WUSV%20Minutes%20060910.pdf
Link above to the minutes of the 2010 WUSV meeting minutes in Nurenburg
The smoking gun .. who knew what and when .. 2010 resolution by WUSV and link below .. clearly the USA situation was discussed and a resolution passed in 2010 .. Craig Groh represented USCA at the meeting and voted for the resolution. The Spanish introduced the resolution.
Suggested text for recognition of trial titles and entry possibilities
If there are two or more WUSV Member Clubs in one Member Country, each Member Club is obliged to allow the members of the other Member Clubs in the country to participate in its events unless the member is under suspension by the event giving club.
In as far as possible, WUSV Member Clubs should accept trial results, show ratings, certificates and/or breed surveys of other Member Clubs. If the trials results, show ratings, certificates, and/or breed surveys are given on the basis of an appropriate ordinance of the WUSV by a WUSV Judge or WUSV Breed Survey Master, all Member Clubs of the WUSV are obliged to recognize them completely.
The Assembly agreed by acclamation to proceed according to this document
United States of America:
German Shepherd Dog Club of America
Frau Patricia Walker
8 votes
United Schutzhund Clubs of America
Herr Craig Groh
6 votes
The constitution of the WUSV was amended in 2012 to address the dual club question, scorebooks and participation.
Ms Stephanie Dunion represented the USCA in Ulm 2012 and had 5 votes to cast and the vote was unanimous for changing the WUSV constitution.
Virtually exact same wording as the 2010 resolution that was also adopted by the WUSV in 2010 and voted for by Craig Groh
In Sept 2012 the WUSV constitution was amended and the USCA was in violation if it did not accept GSDCA-WDA scorebooks with SV judges scores in them
They had been in violation all along but they drug their heels for 4 years .. still the USCA didn't know .. REALLY??
Fall 2012 and Jan / Feb 2013 no change in the USCA bylaws or rules to reflect the WUSV constitution requirement that they accept members of WUSV member clubs and SV scored scorebooks into USCA trials .. they just didn't know??
Link to the WUSV meeting 2012 document
http://www.gsdcouncilaustralia.org/WUSV%20Minutes%20030912.pdf
The best weapons against lies are facts
Link above to the minutes of the 2010 WUSV meeting minutes in Nurenburg
The smoking gun .. who knew what and when .. 2010 resolution by WUSV and link below .. clearly the USA situation was discussed and a resolution passed in 2010 .. Craig Groh represented USCA at the meeting and voted for the resolution. The Spanish introduced the resolution.
Suggested text for recognition of trial titles and entry possibilities
If there are two or more WUSV Member Clubs in one Member Country, each Member Club is obliged to allow the members of the other Member Clubs in the country to participate in its events unless the member is under suspension by the event giving club.
In as far as possible, WUSV Member Clubs should accept trial results, show ratings, certificates and/or breed surveys of other Member Clubs. If the trials results, show ratings, certificates, and/or breed surveys are given on the basis of an appropriate ordinance of the WUSV by a WUSV Judge or WUSV Breed Survey Master, all Member Clubs of the WUSV are obliged to recognize them completely.
The Assembly agreed by acclamation to proceed according to this document
United States of America:
German Shepherd Dog Club of America
Frau Patricia Walker
8 votes
United Schutzhund Clubs of America
Herr Craig Groh
6 votes
The constitution of the WUSV was amended in 2012 to address the dual club question, scorebooks and participation.
Ms Stephanie Dunion represented the USCA in Ulm 2012 and had 5 votes to cast and the vote was unanimous for changing the WUSV constitution.
Virtually exact same wording as the 2010 resolution that was also adopted by the WUSV in 2010 and voted for by Craig Groh
In Sept 2012 the WUSV constitution was amended and the USCA was in violation if it did not accept GSDCA-WDA scorebooks with SV judges scores in them
They had been in violation all along but they drug their heels for 4 years .. still the USCA didn't know .. REALLY??
Fall 2012 and Jan / Feb 2013 no change in the USCA bylaws or rules to reflect the WUSV constitution requirement that they accept members of WUSV member clubs and SV scored scorebooks into USCA trials .. they just didn't know??
Link to the WUSV meeting 2012 document
http://www.gsdcouncilaustralia.org/WUSV%20Minutes%20030912.pdf
The best weapons against lies are facts
by Dog1 on 06 March 2013 - 16:03
All this is well known and well documented. It's been this way for years. Every time I have spoken with USA they have acknowledged they had to accept SV results even if they were in a WDA scorebook. Have you ever heard of an instance where they did not? Has anyone? Didn't think so. USA has always been aware of this since about 2003 when they were spanked on their first attempt to supress the WDA.
The reciprocal agreement is well known also. It was thrown out to the GSD community by USA to circumvent the JA. Those WDA members wanting to show at the USA sieger show, could if they were a GSDCA member,,,member of a competing organization. The irony of this has been published all over the internet for years. No big revolution here.
As I went through the process to see where the scorebook clog was. It was clear that the book in question which was issued at a time it was not officially GSDCA approved or whatever, was in the eyes of USA not a GSDCA scorebook and therefore USA was not bound by the WUSV agreement to accept it until such time as the WDA or GSDCA provided something to show that it was. It was that simple. All the WDA had to do was to write a letter, send a telegram, smoke signal, something, showing that the book was a GSDCA book and all of the drama could have been avoided. Insted they whined to the WUSV. There's really no smoking gun it was always just a question of; Is the scorebook offered only by the WDA connected in any way to the GSDCA other than it has one of their logo's on it.
The reciprocal agreement is well known also. It was thrown out to the GSD community by USA to circumvent the JA. Those WDA members wanting to show at the USA sieger show, could if they were a GSDCA member,,,member of a competing organization. The irony of this has been published all over the internet for years. No big revolution here.
As I went through the process to see where the scorebook clog was. It was clear that the book in question which was issued at a time it was not officially GSDCA approved or whatever, was in the eyes of USA not a GSDCA scorebook and therefore USA was not bound by the WUSV agreement to accept it until such time as the WDA or GSDCA provided something to show that it was. It was that simple. All the WDA had to do was to write a letter, send a telegram, smoke signal, something, showing that the book was a GSDCA book and all of the drama could have been avoided. Insted they whined to the WUSV. There's really no smoking gun it was always just a question of; Is the scorebook offered only by the WDA connected in any way to the GSDCA other than it has one of their logo's on it.
by bubbabooboo on 06 March 2013 - 16:03
Wording of the WUSV 2010 resolution which USCA voted for and the 2012 WUSV amendment to the constitution. It says nothing about the appearance of the scorebooks or who owns it .. if a SV judge gave the score you must take it period or punkt as the Germans would say.
If the trials results, show ratings, certificates, and/or breed surveys are given on the basis of an appropriate ordinance of the WUSV by a WUSV Judge or WUSV Breed Survey Master, all Member Clubs of the WUSV are obliged to recognize them completely.
The Assembly agreed by acclamation to proceed according to this document
SV results are to be recognized regardless and scorebooks are to be accepted!! That is what the WUSV resolution and theWUSV constitutional amendment says clearly as Henke said in his letter and the letter stated the exact same facts .. there was no mis-communication or unclear communication by WUSV. The USCA knew they were in violation continuously as Henke said !!
From the USCA website ... Our objective with this issue has been to gather factual information, provide that information to the membership, and act accordingly. I would like to thank all of you for your patience with regard to this issue and the members of the USCA executive board who have diligently worked in search of honest, clear communication from the WUSV/SV.
link to the USCA website
http://www.germanshepherddog.com/
If the trials results, show ratings, certificates, and/or breed surveys are given on the basis of an appropriate ordinance of the WUSV by a WUSV Judge or WUSV Breed Survey Master, all Member Clubs of the WUSV are obliged to recognize them completely.
The Assembly agreed by acclamation to proceed according to this document
SV results are to be recognized regardless and scorebooks are to be accepted!! That is what the WUSV resolution and theWUSV constitutional amendment says clearly as Henke said in his letter and the letter stated the exact same facts .. there was no mis-communication or unclear communication by WUSV. The USCA knew they were in violation continuously as Henke said !!
From the USCA website ... Our objective with this issue has been to gather factual information, provide that information to the membership, and act accordingly. I would like to thank all of you for your patience with regard to this issue and the members of the USCA executive board who have diligently worked in search of honest, clear communication from the WUSV/SV.
link to the USCA website
http://www.germanshepherddog.com/
by EliDog on 06 March 2013 - 16:03
Boils down to the UScA splitting hairs and playing semantics.
Keith
Keith
by gagsd4 on 06 March 2013 - 16:03
The link will not open for me.
Who was the WDA representative at these WUSV member club meetings?
--Mary
Who was the WDA representative at these WUSV member club meetings?
--Mary
by bubbabooboo on 06 March 2013 - 16:03
This is about USCA lies and claiming the WUSV was not clear in what was the rules. They were crystal clear and the USCA knew they were breaking the rules!! Read the WUSV minutes it's all there .. maybe the USCA should have read what they voted for twice. Read the words .. it says as a WUSV member the member club and its members must accept SV judges scores, etc.. regardless .. I think it is safe to say that SV judges know which score books they can sign and it was NEVER the USCA's business to meddle in SV judges scorebooks and decide what scorebooks they would accept. If an SV judge signed it is is an acceptable scorebook .. read the words .. it's english. Believe me if there is one thing the Germans are good at it is explaining what words mean if you don't understand them.
by bubbabooboo on 06 March 2013 - 16:03
Mary .. Sorry I didn't see the link problem. In Nurenburg it was Patricia Walker listed as GSDCA rep. The person in Ulm was the same I believe and listed as GSDCA but I am not sure of the affiliation GSDCA-WDA or GSDCA. Since the GSDCA has deeper pockets and more members than the GSDCA-WDA I am sure the GSDCA-WDA was happy to have someone else pick up the costs and time of such a trip anyway. Doesn't matter who represented anybody as the USCA voted for a rule that is clear and made iteven more illegal for them to refuse GSDCA-WDA scorebooks with SV judges scores.
by Bob McKown on 06 March 2013 - 17:03
Well i guess all this thread really proves is that UScA listens no better then the GSCDA! Thanks for pointing that out to us.
by SitasMom on 06 March 2013 - 17:03
What is in the past is in the past.............what matters is what happens after the deadline.
How about if both clubs shake hands and "play nice"?
How about if both clubs shake hands and "play nice"?
by Dog1 on 06 March 2013 - 17:03
Bubba,
Has USCA never accepted a result from an SV judge. Your post makes it sound as if they did continuously. Help me out here. Where/when did they ever not accept a SV result?
Has USCA never accepted a result from an SV judge. Your post makes it sound as if they did continuously. Help me out here. Where/when did they ever not accept a SV result?
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