Czech Dog - Page 1

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by dutss on 03 November 2010 - 11:11

They say "I HAVE A CZECH DOG" as they walk by proudly with a confident strut.....smiling because they know that they have a CZECH DOG. So, I work the dog.......and it seems to be move of WG sport type dog...which makes me wonder a bit.

I go home and pull up the pedigree....and am perplexed because most of these dogs are at least 3/4 WG working lines and 1/4 or less czech lines (from what I can tell....dont know much about czech lines but the WG lines are obvious).

I believe part of the problem is that some of these dogs are out of Eurosport and just because the dog came from there most of the owners think that they are czech dogs.

I try ot explain to them that dogs arnt like humans....we dont worry about citizenship....dogs are about blood lines and genetics.

So, What are the requirments to be a Czech dog? How much West German or other blood could be allowed (if any) to still be considered Czech?

by desert dog on 03 November 2010 - 14:11

Y ou might want to read the thread posted some time back, but again on this page called Looking for information about the Pohranicni straze. Although the Pohranicni is not the soul possesors of Czech dogs the thread is definitly one of the very best explaining the theory and spirit of the Czech dogs, and over the years how the lines have been used from other countrys to maintain the spirit of the Czech dogs that are so indigenous to the Czech people. Hank

by SitasMom on 03 November 2010 - 17:11

Eurosport is in Slovakia

by Prager on 03 November 2010 - 21:11

All GS dogs come from Germany. "Czech Dog" should refer to certain spirit and philosophy and culture in which they are bred and trained. Czech dog in my book is rouged dog in health and spirit, clear headed, and not extreme but balanced and capable of any work put in form of it if trained properly. Mainly I would like to stress courage under stress, discriminativness, territoriality, invetigativness, intelligence and trainability and willingness to please and not willing to give up if threatened.
Even so there are bloodlines famous for these abilities you can have dogs with 99% WG lines and if they fit the above mentioned criteria and come from Czech rep or from Czech people breeding them or approving such breeding in spirit and pedigree.Than you can call it Czech dog.

Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

by Elkoorr on 03 November 2010 - 23:11

I respectfully disagree, Prager. If you sell me a dog as a Czech dog, and it turns out the dog is 99% west line, then you just sold me a dog under false premesis. It doesnt matter if the dog was bred by a Czech breeder, born in Czech or trained in czech or fits the description and mind of a czech dog....the linage is still west.

If one refers to a certain type of linage, then the dog should be at least greater then 75% (preverebly 80%) of that specific linage. One can debate over the number of generations, for me the more the better and more acurate.

by Prager on 04 November 2010 - 00:11

Elkoorr,
There are many people in for example USA who have no clue how to match pedigrees. They breed 2 more or less excellent Czech dogs which are total mismatch and with 0 knowledge of the problems in the pedigree and they produce shit. According to you; you would could call it Czech dogs. I call that selling dog under "false premises" since dog is US back yard crap because is not bred the way Czech dog should be bred.
That is the problem here . Many people breed such dogs but they are NOT CZECH TYPE dogs. They are dogs which have Czech dogs in the pedigree but if they did not produce the proper type based on the Czech culture and philosophy of breeders in Czech rep they are not Czech dogs. That is like you bring Grape wines from Bordeaux France and plant them in ground in California. Wine produce from such grapes is California wine and not French wine. And vice versa.
I have discussed this with Jiri the creator of z Pohranicni straze. And that is what we came up with.It is a culture and philosophy of perspective in which GSD dog should be bred. Here is my point. For example would you say that Kaso z Pohranicni straze is a Czech dog?
I would . And who would not? He is in most old style Czech dogs. But he is only 50% Czech.
Look at this pedigree:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/pedigree/123828.html
Or Din z PS is mostly German but I would still call him Czech dog!
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/pedigree/108659.html
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

by alboe2009 on 04 November 2010 - 00:11

How does one translate the information off the papers since they're in Czech?

by Elkoorr on 04 November 2010 - 04:11

You are correct Prager, I would not call Kaso or Din a Czech dog, especially not Din, even if they carry the PS kennel name. Per your say I would have to call my youngster a Czech dog as he has all the attributes you listed, but he is still half east and half west. And what do you call then a combination of Czech and Czech that didnt produce the attributes? American? What if it was born in Czech and ended up being a piece of shit? I just dont think you can deny a dog its linage just because it doesnt fullfill the attributes that specific linage should have.

by duke1965 on 04 November 2010 - 05:11

I fell in love with the czech line dogs for what they are in spirit ,mind and drives , so with that in mind you could say prager has a point , however ,I seriously doubt that the flooding of czech with westlinedogs that is now happening has anything to do with improving quality or breeding in that thought
I cant imagine the massive use of famous dogs will do the job , like javir , como , bomber , and you name it

by dutss on 04 November 2010 - 13:11

The old czech and ddr dogs would be more like the pre WW2 dogs so if we are putting so much WG working lines in them why dont we just start calling the good dogs German Shepherd Dogs?

If I breed a litter that is 3/4 WG working line 1/4 old czech lines or vise versa (bred after doing research for proper matches).....half come out to represent what the what the czech dogs are suposed to represent as far as drives, culture and philosophy of czech dogs and half do not.....the ones that go to the pet home. Do I say that half of my litter is czech and the other half isnt?

Do I breed a litter that has no czech in it at all and one dog comes out like what the czech dogs are supposed to be...then is it a czech dog?

Confusing.

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