what do u think about cow hocks - Page 2

look at the breed standard............
an american showline has what is considered a soft back........and enlongated stiffel (sp?).

as far as euro shepherds go, some are a bit more arched than one would like, but many that are considered "roached" by some are not roached at all.

some confuse a correct wither, back, loin and croup as "roached", mostly by the working line people.......who's dogs they love have a flat back and overly steep and overly short croupe....

An arch in the topline is incorrect, regardless.  While not a true roach, that arch has been deemed a roach for lack of another descriptor.  Many of the Euro dogs I've seen do not have correct withers.  They're quite flat, and I see my fair share of steep croups  in them as well.

Croups are a problem in all three lines right now.

Cow hocks are a fault, imo a serious one. I was very surprised to see how it seems acceptable or ignored in the GSL. Dogs can stand with the hocks in due to over long bones with resulting weakness in the rear and there are those with bones that are formed in. Sometimes one hock sometimes both. I have seen both types move straight, but cannot believe this would be optimal for a dog who had to keep it up for hours herding.

jmo,
Rik

Agreed, Rik

Cow hocks have become accepted as 'part' of the GSD unfortunately. A blind eye was turned to this fault for so long that it bedded in and became more the norm than the exception.

I totally agree with you Rik.

interesting stuff

An interesting point of view is to study wild animals, ungulates and predators. It seems that standing with the hind legs, (front too, for that matter)perfectly parallel to each other is man made conformation. It also tends to put strain on the outside of the limbs and cause joint problems. I'm not saying that over angulation is included with cow hock conformation in the wild, that too is man made.

puppy showing nice strong hocks........


different puppy showing strong hocks

cow hocks are a pet peeve of mine.............don't like them at all.

The upper line runs from the base of the neck via the high, long withers and via the straight back towards the slightly sloping croup, without visible interruption. The back is moderately long, firm, strong and well-muscled. The loin is broad, short, strongly developed and well-muscled. The croup should be long and slightly sloping (approx 23° to the horizontal) and the upper line should merge into the base of the tail without interruption.

The ribs should feature a moderate curvature; a barrel-shaped chest is just as faulty as flat ribs.

The tail extends at least to the hock, but not beyond the middle of the hind pastern. It has slightly longer hair on the underside and is carried hanging downward in a gentle curve, whereby in a state of excitement and in motion it is raised and carried higher, but not beyond the horizontal. Operative corrections are forbidden.


while not the perfect dog........this is the same dog in 2 different positions.........
note that when standing naturally her back seems flat and when stacked, her back is sloping.........

please don't confuse the dog by the stack............ 

in both photos she doesn't have cowhocks........

Sitasmom, in your last post with the two photos, how can you tell if hte dog has cow hocks or not? Is it different than horses? In horses you can really only see it from behind, where the hocks point in toward one another?

Thanks!