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by solomon on 16 January 2012 - 21:01
GSD MAN unfortunately that will depend more upon how much money is involved than what is best for the breed.
by Jantie on 17 January 2012 - 05:01
Hi all!
My handle is Jantie.
My real name is Jan Demeyere.
I wish to add the following:
I have brought the information about Team Marlboro Jaguar and Harley to the public AND the SV. (But it was banned here on PDB).
The SV is only addressing the subject because I forced them to. Otherwise, you all would never have known.
Eventually the SV bumped into the Swedish Kennel Club, and these people are 100% correct, NOT adapting HD/ED-scores.
Hence, a huge problem occurs. We have an SV-youth champion (being promoted by an SV-breeder), that should not exist/should have been banned from the Zuchtbuch already (Nachzuchteintragungssperre for Jaguar).
There are more issues that I have brought to the intention of the SV, such as the one of Toni von der Rieser Perle.
So, here we are. I didn't offend anyone, spoke the truth only.
If somebody tries very hard to clean the Augean stables of the SV, why don't you support this?
My handle is Jantie.
My real name is Jan Demeyere.
I wish to add the following:
I have brought the information about Team Marlboro Jaguar and Harley to the public AND the SV. (But it was banned here on PDB).
The SV is only addressing the subject because I forced them to. Otherwise, you all would never have known.
Eventually the SV bumped into the Swedish Kennel Club, and these people are 100% correct, NOT adapting HD/ED-scores.
Hence, a huge problem occurs. We have an SV-youth champion (being promoted by an SV-breeder), that should not exist/should have been banned from the Zuchtbuch already (Nachzuchteintragungssperre for Jaguar).
There are more issues that I have brought to the intention of the SV, such as the one of Toni von der Rieser Perle.
So, here we are. I didn't offend anyone, spoke the truth only.
If somebody tries very hard to clean the Augean stables of the SV, why don't you support this?
by myret on 17 January 2012 - 06:01
That is a Danish dog who has been used alot In breeding
by mrdarcy on 17 January 2012 - 13:01
Jantie, with all due respect what Videx posted above is not EXACTLY what you posted, hence the reason you were deleted. You then went on to post your assumptions on both dogs pedigrees, as far as I am led to believe it is only the sire in question at this time? As Videx post above clearly appears to say NO FINAL DECISIONS have been made, so until there is a decision please stick to facts then there will be no need to delete/edit your comments. Thank you for your understanding in this matter. mrdarcy.
by Jantie on 17 January 2012 - 18:01
I do NOT post assumptions, but I always state facts and fair warnings, based on the breeding regulations of the SV!
If the Swedish Kennel Club certifies a dog (Jaguar) has a bad ED-diagnose,
one with which the dog in question should not be allowed to be bred from,
and later another dog is put in its place to deliver a good diagnose but a fraudulous one (in Germany),
the SV can only come to 1 conclusion.
One has tried to deceive the club, the breed, and all of the members. The dog in question (Jaguar) will need to be banned from the breeding book alltogether and receive a breed ban for all of its progeny = Nachzuchteintragungssperre. Thus Harley (one of the descendants) will need to be striken from the breeding book!
In the meantime this dog is being promoted as a super stud dog (and a Youth Champion) on the Internet and all the people worldwide, ignorant of these facts (insider knowledge) which I’m trying to describe on my weblog, and if one lets me on Pedigreedatabase, will later be confronted with the fact that the pups they will deliver with their females will NOT receive proper pink papers! (As is the case with the offspring from Tell von der Rieser Perle! - Are you maybe NOT aware of these facts? - The progeny was banned and there are many "casualties" to say the least. Poor people, NOT even having papers for their nice pups!)
You are looking on these facts and still don’t want the people to be alarmed?!
You still censor my posts, even delete them from the comments section!?
Imagine the claims of the poor people that will have chosen Harley as a stud dog afterwards! Their heartaches!
Imagine the damage being done to the breed right in front of your eyes!
I'm so sorry you can not understand the magnitude and the impact of your bad decisions.
So sorry!
Jantie
If the Swedish Kennel Club certifies a dog (Jaguar) has a bad ED-diagnose,
one with which the dog in question should not be allowed to be bred from,
and later another dog is put in its place to deliver a good diagnose but a fraudulous one (in Germany),
the SV can only come to 1 conclusion.
One has tried to deceive the club, the breed, and all of the members. The dog in question (Jaguar) will need to be banned from the breeding book alltogether and receive a breed ban for all of its progeny = Nachzuchteintragungssperre. Thus Harley (one of the descendants) will need to be striken from the breeding book!
In the meantime this dog is being promoted as a super stud dog (and a Youth Champion) on the Internet and all the people worldwide, ignorant of these facts (insider knowledge) which I’m trying to describe on my weblog, and if one lets me on Pedigreedatabase, will later be confronted with the fact that the pups they will deliver with their females will NOT receive proper pink papers! (As is the case with the offspring from Tell von der Rieser Perle! - Are you maybe NOT aware of these facts? - The progeny was banned and there are many "casualties" to say the least. Poor people, NOT even having papers for their nice pups!)
You are looking on these facts and still don’t want the people to be alarmed?!
You still censor my posts, even delete them from the comments section!?
Imagine the claims of the poor people that will have chosen Harley as a stud dog afterwards! Their heartaches!
Imagine the damage being done to the breed right in front of your eyes!
I'm so sorry you can not understand the magnitude and the impact of your bad decisions.
So sorry!
Jantie
by JudyK on 17 January 2012 - 18:01
I believe the same thing happened to Nero Nobachtal and his progeny so it appears that the SV will have no choice but to put sanctions on Jaguar and his progeny. I think Nero progeny were banned after a certain date but I'm not sure what date that was.
Judy
Judy
by Silbersee on 17 January 2012 - 20:01
I am completely neutral to this and I think that the SV can very well ban Team Marlboro Jaguar for use in Germany if it is found that he does not meet the SV breeding requirements but they do not have the power to ban any of his foreign offspring (including the son Harley) since he was not bred in Germany. That depends entirely on the foreign kennel club and whatever regulations they have in place. If the Swedish Kennel Club has the stipulation that a dog has to have ED certification before he can be used for breeding, then yes, Harley could be in jeopardy of being banned. Otherwise, no! Harley's owners will have to proof his elbow status and he would be cleared. And if that happens, it is not the SV's fault. They cannot legally force other foreign breed organizations to adopt their strict breeding requirements. The SV even has to accept AKC registered dogs, all of them and we all know that the AKC has absolutely no requirements for breeding. I am emphasizing on this to stop all these speculations and allegations that the SV is just a terribly corrupt organization who does not care about our breed! They do what they can but they cannot start witch hunts without proof and court orders. After all, we do live in a democratic society (in Europe and here in the U.S.) where everybody is innocent until proven guilty!
The difference between David's post and Jantie's a while back is that David reported the facts from the SV website and Jantie doomed and decried the title and future of Harley. The SV has made no statement in regard to him at all, only to Jaguar. And I know that the SV published the state of affairs regarding Jaguar because their regulations bind them to and not because of Jantie forcing them. Nice try!
They did the same with other dogs, long before Jantie appeared in the cyber world!
Judy, Jaguar is a completely different case than Nero Nöbachtal or Tell Rieser Perle! The huge difference is that Nero and Tell were German bred dogs, Jaguar is not!
Chris
The difference between David's post and Jantie's a while back is that David reported the facts from the SV website and Jantie doomed and decried the title and future of Harley. The SV has made no statement in regard to him at all, only to Jaguar. And I know that the SV published the state of affairs regarding Jaguar because their regulations bind them to and not because of Jantie forcing them. Nice try!
They did the same with other dogs, long before Jantie appeared in the cyber world!
Judy, Jaguar is a completely different case than Nero Nöbachtal or Tell Rieser Perle! The huge difference is that Nero and Tell were German bred dogs, Jaguar is not!
Chris
by Jantie on 18 January 2012 - 05:01
I am very sorry to have to say this is NOT about breeding regulations and countries and stuff. With all due respect, wrong thread Silbersee!
THIS IS ABOUT PUTTING ANOTHER DOG IN PLACE FOR X-RAYS!
It is called: deceit, fraud, deception, cheating, scam, humbug, trickery, fiddle, skulduggery, swindle, defraud, imposture etc...
And allow me to communicate to the public in a righteous way your close involvement with the Hochzucht-breeders and some SV-Zuchtrichter in Germany, so you ARE NOT completely neutral to this.
By the way, and again with all due respect, dear Moderator!!, dear Silbersee, you are defending the fact that it would be allowed to use a stud with defraud HD/ED diagnoses!
I cannot believe what I'm reading here.
THIS IS ABOUT PUTTING ANOTHER DOG IN PLACE FOR X-RAYS!
It is called: deceit, fraud, deception, cheating, scam, humbug, trickery, fiddle, skulduggery, swindle, defraud, imposture etc...
And allow me to communicate to the public in a righteous way your close involvement with the Hochzucht-breeders and some SV-Zuchtrichter in Germany, so you ARE NOT completely neutral to this.
By the way, and again with all due respect, dear Moderator!!, dear Silbersee, you are defending the fact that it would be allowed to use a stud with defraud HD/ED diagnoses!
I cannot believe what I'm reading here.
by hexe on 18 January 2012 - 07:01
And allow me to communicate to the public in a righteous way your close involvement with the Hochzucht-breeders and some SV-Zuchtrichter in Germany, so you ARE NOT completely neutral to this.
By the way, and again with all due respect, dear Moderator!!, dear Silbersee, you are defending the fact that it would be allowed to use a stud with defraud HD/ED diagnoses!
I cannot believe what I'm reading here.
No, Silbersee has in no way defended anyone falsifying records and substituting a sound dog for an unsound one to obtain a normal elbow rating for a dog with bad elbows. And what does having a 'close involvement with the Hochzucht-breeders'
[really? THE Hochzucht-breeders? Every single one of them? Wow, Silbersee, I had no idea you were so widely-connected as to be involved with THE Hochzucht breeders!], 'and some SV-Zuchtrichter in Germany,' have to do with whether or not the SV has any jurisdiction over the Swedish breed registry? Oh, and you forgot to point out that Silbersee is German, too, so that obviously must make her biased in favor of the SV and submitting fraudulent radiographs, right?
It seems simple enough, to me--just as the SV can't do diddly-squat about somebody here in the United States breeding dogs without any hip rating, or show rating, or working titles, so too it is that the SV cannot force the Swedish registry to disqualify the offspring of this particular dog from being used for breeding purposes, or from being shown, unless the offspring themselves are found to be lacking in the appropriate credentials.
Oh, one more thing--I don't think Silbersee has EVER made any attempt to keep it a secret that she has close friendships with some breeders in Germany--both showline AND working line breeders, I believe--or that she has friendships or at least knows some of the breed wardens and Koermeisters there as well...so there was really no need for you to 'inform the public in a righteous way' of this. Better you utilize your righteous 'exposures' for things that really ARE kept hidden from the light of day...
By the way, and again with all due respect, dear Moderator!!, dear Silbersee, you are defending the fact that it would be allowed to use a stud with defraud HD/ED diagnoses!
I cannot believe what I'm reading here.
No, Silbersee has in no way defended anyone falsifying records and substituting a sound dog for an unsound one to obtain a normal elbow rating for a dog with bad elbows. And what does having a 'close involvement with the Hochzucht-breeders'
[really? THE Hochzucht-breeders? Every single one of them? Wow, Silbersee, I had no idea you were so widely-connected as to be involved with THE Hochzucht breeders!], 'and some SV-Zuchtrichter in Germany,' have to do with whether or not the SV has any jurisdiction over the Swedish breed registry? Oh, and you forgot to point out that Silbersee is German, too, so that obviously must make her biased in favor of the SV and submitting fraudulent radiographs, right?
It seems simple enough, to me--just as the SV can't do diddly-squat about somebody here in the United States breeding dogs without any hip rating, or show rating, or working titles, so too it is that the SV cannot force the Swedish registry to disqualify the offspring of this particular dog from being used for breeding purposes, or from being shown, unless the offspring themselves are found to be lacking in the appropriate credentials.
Oh, one more thing--I don't think Silbersee has EVER made any attempt to keep it a secret that she has close friendships with some breeders in Germany--both showline AND working line breeders, I believe--or that she has friendships or at least knows some of the breed wardens and Koermeisters there as well...so there was really no need for you to 'inform the public in a righteous way' of this. Better you utilize your righteous 'exposures' for things that really ARE kept hidden from the light of day...
by Jantie on 18 January 2012 - 08:01
Let's cut to the chase and stick to the heart of the matter: "substituting a sound dog for an unsound one" and how the Kennel Club SV handles the subject:
Please feel free to read and/or translate my letter to the SV:
An den Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde
Zuchtamt, und alle die es angeht
Zu Händen von Frau Fath
Steinerne Furt 71
86167 Augsburg
Vichte, Belgien, 29. Dezember 2011
Betriff.: Team Marlboro Harley & Vater Jaguar
Link zu unserem Bericht: http://gsd-legends.eu/Varia/JaguarTeamMarlboro2011.pdf
Sehr verehrte Frau Fath,
Ich möchte Sie freundlich jedoch mit aller Vehemenz dazu auffordern auf die SV-Webseiten schnell darüber zu berichten, dass für Deckakte von Team Marlboro Harley, den Junghundklasse-Sieger 2011, gewarnt werden muss.
Die Manipulationen im Bezug auf die HD/ED-Befunde des Vaters Team Marlboro Jaguar habe ich bereits vor Monaten in einem Bericht und zwar in aller Öffentlichkeit angesprochen. Zurzeit wird der Sohn Harley aber trotzdem verstärkt auf die Internet-Seiten der SV-Züchter der Familie Niedergassel in Holtkamp vermarktet.
Es wird Ihnen klar sein, dass ein NICHT-Einschreiten seitens des SV zu großen Schwierigkeiten für die dort vorstellig werdenden Hündinnenbesitzer führen wird (in Analogie mit den Manipulationen um Tell von der Rieser Perle – es laufen wie bekannt zur Zeit mehrere zivilrechtliche Verfahren), wenn später alle Nachkommen von Jaguar aus dem Zuchtbuch gestrichen werden müssen und somit auch Harley seine Eintragung verlieren muss, UND alle möglichen Nachkommen von Harley dann keine Papiere bekommen dürfen.
Auszug aus der Zuchtordnung des SV:
“Hunde, bei denen das ED-Verfahren eine mittlere oder schwere Form der ED nachgewiesen hat, werden mit Nachzuchteintragungssperre belegt.”
Viele der Hobbyzüchter sind mit EDV und Internet nicht sehr vertraut, eine Meldung auf den SV-Webseiten jedoch wird sich sehr schnell international und mittels der Ortsgruppen herumsprechen und als Warnung gelten. Ohne schnelle Reaktion verletzt der Verein seine Fürsorgepflicht.
Der Brief der Abteilungsleiterin des Schwedischen Kennelclubs Frau Skarp, der den SV bereits vorliegt, lege ich Ihnen gerne noch einmal in Beilage.
Ich hoffe sehr, Sie und der Verein, werden schleunigst etwas unternehmen, zum Schutze der Hündinnenbesitzer sowie der Rasse.
Mit hochachtungsvollen Grüßen,
Jan Demeyere
LG16 Ausland
B-8570 Vichte
Please feel free to read and/or translate my letter to the SV:
An den Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde
Zuchtamt, und alle die es angeht
Zu Händen von Frau Fath
Steinerne Furt 71
86167 Augsburg
Vichte, Belgien, 29. Dezember 2011
Betriff.: Team Marlboro Harley & Vater Jaguar
Link zu unserem Bericht: http://gsd-legends.eu/Varia/JaguarTeamMarlboro2011.pdf
Sehr verehrte Frau Fath,
Ich möchte Sie freundlich jedoch mit aller Vehemenz dazu auffordern auf die SV-Webseiten schnell darüber zu berichten, dass für Deckakte von Team Marlboro Harley, den Junghundklasse-Sieger 2011, gewarnt werden muss.
Die Manipulationen im Bezug auf die HD/ED-Befunde des Vaters Team Marlboro Jaguar habe ich bereits vor Monaten in einem Bericht und zwar in aller Öffentlichkeit angesprochen. Zurzeit wird der Sohn Harley aber trotzdem verstärkt auf die Internet-Seiten der SV-Züchter der Familie Niedergassel in Holtkamp vermarktet.
Es wird Ihnen klar sein, dass ein NICHT-Einschreiten seitens des SV zu großen Schwierigkeiten für die dort vorstellig werdenden Hündinnenbesitzer führen wird (in Analogie mit den Manipulationen um Tell von der Rieser Perle – es laufen wie bekannt zur Zeit mehrere zivilrechtliche Verfahren), wenn später alle Nachkommen von Jaguar aus dem Zuchtbuch gestrichen werden müssen und somit auch Harley seine Eintragung verlieren muss, UND alle möglichen Nachkommen von Harley dann keine Papiere bekommen dürfen.
Auszug aus der Zuchtordnung des SV:
“Hunde, bei denen das ED-Verfahren eine mittlere oder schwere Form der ED nachgewiesen hat, werden mit Nachzuchteintragungssperre belegt.”
Viele der Hobbyzüchter sind mit EDV und Internet nicht sehr vertraut, eine Meldung auf den SV-Webseiten jedoch wird sich sehr schnell international und mittels der Ortsgruppen herumsprechen und als Warnung gelten. Ohne schnelle Reaktion verletzt der Verein seine Fürsorgepflicht.
Der Brief der Abteilungsleiterin des Schwedischen Kennelclubs Frau Skarp, der den SV bereits vorliegt, lege ich Ihnen gerne noch einmal in Beilage.
Ich hoffe sehr, Sie und der Verein, werden schleunigst etwas unternehmen, zum Schutze der Hündinnenbesitzer sowie der Rasse.
Mit hochachtungsvollen Grüßen,
Jan Demeyere
LG16 Ausland
B-8570 Vichte
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