Working lines? - Page 1

I've been very hesitant to post this, but I am just baffled. My husband has been itching for an East German/DDR pup. So, after much debate, I agreed - as long as it had some West German in it. I've dealt with working lines and have never liked what I saw - the dogs were nuts. So I wanted some Showline thrown in to even out the temperament a bit. After some searching, I agreed to a male he had chosen. Half east/half west sable. Arko vom Butjenter Land and Ghandi von Areltt on the showline end. On the working line end, the dam had come from True Haus kennels, her sire being Tom vom Haus Pixner. Now, I know shit to none when it comes to working lines, and after scouring a few posts, Tom vom Haus Pixner's name has popped up a few times. What does this dog normally throw? Maybe it's the showline in the pup, but he is very docile and tires easily. I had him checked out and nothing is physically wrong with him. Do WL's normally take longer to pent up their energy/drive? Granted, he has prey drive, but my other dogs run circles around him. Even as puppies my pups had more energy than this male. He also lacks a great deal of curiosity. He doesn't want to wander off or adventure. He has ended up being our pet, which I don't mind - I have an altered Groenendael bitch as a pet as well. Have the WL's I've been around been the exception to the rule? Or is this male just ridiculously overtaken by the SL in him? I've attempted a great deal of means to get this pup excited/bouncing around or even smelling the ground for bits of raw food. He wasn't interested. He likes carrying around his toys, but doesn't really want to go get them, if they're laying around he'll pick one up and carry it around. Doesn't like sqeauker toys. Doesn't like raw food. Doesn't like tripe. Did we just end up with an inactive WL/SL male? The only thing I really haven't done is brought him by the club to see how he acts. WL people have any thoughts on this? Suggestions?

Hi, puppies mature at different rates & certain lines develop their drives later also. Most of the show x working lines that I have seen the offspring are more active / drivy than the show line parent,
but much less drives than the working line parent in general. You can find some successful SL x WL crosses working, but majority will be calmer less drivy type of dogs compare to full WL dogs. 
Sounds like your puppy needs time to mature & would benefit with doing some drive building with him, like using a flirt pole.  I don't know enough about the SL lines of your puppy, &
you haven't supply enough info of the WL of your puppy's dam side only included her sire, out of Tom to comment on pedigree.
I have a female dog that is mostly old DDR lines & Czech lines. She was very calm as a puppy, & had no interest in a ball / rag. It was difficult to get her to really engage with the flirt pole.
She does have high food drive though. After she turned 18 months old it was light a switch went off in her, & suddenly she became ball crazy. Her bite work training still works best in defense
than prey, so we had to wait a while to start her bite work. Your puppy might be a late bloomer also, or will just be a great pet.  

I just wanted to add not all WL are hyper dogs that must only live in kennels. I own 8 WL dogs of various ages & all live in my home. 2 do take longer to calm down & want to throw the ball endlessly it seems.
The other 6 are happy to lay around relaxing when not working. They do need off leash exercise daily like a good hike / swimming / training / playing fetch but nothing very crazy.

So it may develop later on? That is encouraging to hear. I've yet to have a pup that didn't show any interest in the ball/rag/squeaky toy. Let alone raw food. 
And I must admit, I was extraordinarily apprehensive with this pup, despite even having SL in him. I was raised around Police Shepherd bitches and WL Border Collies. Every dog in the house was neurotic. After that, I swore I would just have SL - which I've been comfortable with. They don't always need to be doing something, they can sleep more than 3 hours without waking to bark at the wind, and don't always need the ball to be happy. I've always been active with my SL's - Schutzhund, Running, Hiking (yet to do swimming with a dog though), Traveling..never really had a problem with them. Didn't want a neurotic WL thrown into the mix. But, must say, after becoming more active with the forums on here, doesn't seem WL's are as neurotic as I've been under the impression of.

Sounds like you've had exeperiences with some very bad examples of Working Lines.  

How old is this pup?  My DDR/West working pup was very similar when I first got her, really laid back, not all that interested in food or toys.  Would lay down and sleep at puppy class.  About 8 months old that really changed, now very playful, chases the rag, tugs, plays ball, food motivated, etc.  She's going to be a good working dog now.  It's been said that DDR dogs take longer to mature.

Emoore - I wasn't sure if the WL's I've been around were the standard for the temperament in a WL.

GranvilleGSD - Sounds like this pup! He's very..for a lack of better term - lazy. He's 5 months as of now.

I have worked a couple of Tommy Pups.  It was apparent at eight weeks old these dogs had the drive to work.  No doubt about it.  From what I understand they turned out to be very nice.  I will be looking at vom haus pixner first when I decide to get a new pup.

I wouldnt blame the pixner dog for lack of drive....I would without a doubt blame the show line.  I have seen people mix work and show thinking they were going for the middle but with the anchor being attached to the working line the breedings have not worked out well.

I would suggest that if you want a dog that doesnt have as much drive buy what some may consider a "dud" out of a well bred working line litter. I would have to think a "dud" out of a working line litter may me a better example of a GSD than some of the prey monster "sport"  dogs.

I dont have a problem with Show dogs as far as drive.  I have noticed that many of he dogs I have worked just lack courage.....when what little prey they have is exhausted they have nothing to fall back on.  Just a gerneral statement based on my experience.  I am sure there are some really nce show dogs around.

I have never seen a puppy as calm as the OP describes. You're totally positive there is nothing physically wrong with it?

I see a lot of mix SL & DDR WL in my area, most puppies turn out as sidhimelkel has posted. Some do get more drives & activity with maturity, but no all do.
They do make great pets for the busy / less active house holds wanting a calm GSD. You'll see one or two from that litter combo make it into clubs / working homes,
but majority of the time the rest of the litter will not work out for such venues.  I agree with Dustss about the SL lacking courage, you'll see the same issue crop up in many
WL x SL crosses the 1st generation. Many DDR / Czech lines take a little longer to mature & have their drives develop fully so if you combine this with SL's they have a even longer delay
in developing their drives, that is if they are their to be develop.
Your pup might change with maturity, but will never turn from laid back puppy into an adult prey monster. Hopefully he'll have the level some where close that you were seeking.   
Good luck with him.

but my other dogs run circles around him.

Given that you say dogs (plural) and run(present tense) I'm going to assume you have other dogs interacting with this puppy.  If they're older and he's 5 months, its possible that he's of a more docile temperment AND getting bullied down to the bottom of the pecking order by the other dogs.

That would also suppress his drive and his confidence in himself.