Top 5 Raw Foods - Page 1

Hello All, I have been feeding Orijen and started my GSD on a raw food diet (orijen as supplement) recently. Within 3-4 days, massive diarrhea. He is now on cooked chicken and rice in order to get his system turned around. It is much better after a couple days. I don't want to start a huge debate about raw. I am interested in getting perspectives on the top raw diets. It was much easier analyzing kibble. There are soooooo many choices re raw. For what it is worth, I am located in CT. John

Hi JDGSD -  Many dogs can make the transition from kibble diet onto raw far more swiftly than, say, changing kibble brands without gastric upset, but some dogs do need time to adjust to raw - canine stomach acids do take time to build up to the concentrations needed for dissolving bony material.  Pancreatic enzyme production, (lipase, amylase) may also take time to build up to the levels required to deal with raw food. 
Sometimes, especially if a combination of kibble and raw is fed, the transit time of the mix in the gut is compromised and the balance of gut flora is knocked out of kilter.  Could even be that some of the raw food may have been contaminated with campylobacter spp or other pathogens.  All this can result in the diarrhoea you speak of.

You didn't say what raw meats you were feeding, or in what proportions, or if you were feeding vegetable matter along with the meat/bone component, or what the ratio of meat/bone/offal you were using, or how much.

However, for a decent raw diet for an adult dog in moderate work is generally recommended at the following rates:
2% - 4% bodyweight/day as an overall ration (meaning if you have a 100 lb shep, you'd be feeding  2lb - 3lb food per day, or if you work in kg, a 40kg shep would be given around 1kg flesh/bone).

80% of this kg of food comprises muscle meat and offals (include heart as muscle meat), 10% edible bone (i.e. ribs, skeletons, but not the large, weight bearing bones) and 10% fat.  

Top diet for my sheps is based on whole carcase parts.  I use lamb/sheep/beef tripe (green, unwashed).  Other offals such as kidney, liver, but limit liver to around 3 - 4oz (about 100g) a couple of times a week, much more can lead to hypervitaminosis A, as well as liver being laxative!).  Depends on what's available in your area as far as muscle meat is concerned.  Whole carcases of poultry, rabbit, carcase parts of venison, beef, lamb.  Fish occasionally if you can get it, eggs - raw, with or without shell, a couple two or three times a week.
I don't feed any supplements except maybe a squirt of Salmon oil.  I don't feed vegetables - if I did, I'd cook them first, but only give them as a fibre source.  The green tripe supplies fibre, along with the hair/gut content of small herbivores such as rabbit.

You can feed pig meat, but it is very fatty - I combine any pig meat parts with leaner meat/offal.  Tripe is very fatty, but my lot seem to be able to digest tripe fat better than pig fat.

Don't sweat about getting the 80/10/10 mix right each time.  It's perfectly okay to feed a pretty bony meal like chicken legs/wings for a day or two, so long as you even up the odds by feeding soft offal or muscle meat every third meal or two, or vice versa.  Your dog's faeces will tell you if you're feeding too much bone.

One other tip - if you're feeding several dogs who have different work rates, feed your lowest ranking dog a higher proportion of tripes/lung/wings (lower value protein), and your higher ranking dog a little more heart/muscle/higher value meat, it will keep help keep stability in the ranks. A dollop of cottage cheese in with their rations, or a splosh of full fat yoghurt during times of stress can be useful for helping to keep things calm and less competitive, I've found.

Apologies in advance for the 'essay' - it's really hard to give a personal 'Top Diet' as you asked for without feeling the imperative to justify the reasons for personal choice. 

If you need any 'tables' of biological values of different meats/offals etc, I can post again with the relevant links - I daren't try and do it now in case I lose

lol... i knew I'd lose the rest of the dissertation...

Here are a couple of links to the BV of foodstuffs  I'd offered up - for example, in the first link, if you want to know the values of green tripe (beef), type tripe in the search box, then select beef products, and take it from there.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=20958

Good luck
Maggie

I have been feeding Nature's Variety Raw Instinct for quite some time and have had very good success but the dog on it has no real digestion upsets when I skip her foods quickly anyway.

Here is a link that may help you plan meals for your dog:

http://leerburg.com/diet2.htm 

Good Luck,
   Paula

Maggie, Thank you so much for your thorough response. It is very much appreciated. As a novice re feeding raw, there seems to be so many choices. What are your thoughts on feeding the frozen "commercial" raw food? That is what I tried (Abady). The "just thaw and feed" raw? Maybe my question is answered by my result = diarrhea? Any thoughts???

Thank you k-9mom and Paula as well. Good info. Leerburgh is great. Natures Variety is the raw where you just defrost? Right?

JDGSD....this is just my 2 cents...
I personally would not switch my dogs to raw during hot days of summer...simple understanding of thermogenics...long explanation made short, i would switch your dog in the fall when heat would not be a factor in your dogs metabolism and digestion process, even in humans heat is hard on digestion system and we become more sensitive to changes in our diet...

Abady has a "checkered" past.  Some people used to look at him as a "guru".  I have not given my dogs Abady frozen and will not.

If you start on chicken backs and necks, there will be very firm stool in the transition.  It also gets them seriously chewing and crushing.  Then, later, I would add some prepared raw.  But, I always give chicken quarters or parts.  There is no substitute for the satisfaction and teeth cleaning of letting them sink their predator teeth into muscles and bone.

There are many good brands of prepared raw meals.  Natures variety has been mentioned and I have used it in the past.  The advantage is that it can be purchased in several stores.  My objections are the flax in it and the high price.

I use two brands that are delivered frozen to my door at a very good price.  Several years ago I bought an inexpensive upright freezer that uses very little energy.  Now that I live in "Poverty Paradise" where stores are inconvenient, have nothing I want or just too far away, I favor delivery.

I currently use http://www.excelk9diet.com/home.htm   It is good quality and inexpensive.  $1.95/lb for chicken in nice thin, flat, stackable packaging. 

Chicken Flavor
(Whole ground chicken, including bone and organ meat, assorted fruits and vegetables as season permits, kelp, alfalfa, lecithin, whole egg, organic apple cider vinegar, organic salmon oil) and $2.80 for beef in two versions.
Beef flavor
(Lean beef, beef organ meat, assorted fruits and vegetables as season permits, ground eggshell, kelp, alfalfa, lecithin, whole egg, organic apple cider vinegar, organic salmon oil)
Beef Tripe flavor
(Lean beef, beef tripe with ground trachea and gullet, beef organ meat, assorted fruits and vegetables as season permits, ground eggshell, kelp, alfalfa, lecithin, whole egg, organic apple cider vinegar, organic salmon oil)   I also buy a frozen green tripe prepared complete meal at $2.05/lb. http://www.greentripe.com/
XKALIBER: Green Tripe, Muscle Meat, Heart, Tongue, Trachea/Gullet and Ground Bone
Product available in 1lb, 2lb and 5lb size chubs.  
I have heard of several brands that others have used for years with very good results, Common Sense and OMA's Pride and Darwin's.  Some brands are very expensive and some other equally good brands are not.

Michele

Here's what I learned this weekend:

If you order from a  butcher then be sure to ask the butcher to cut the items to a manageable size at the time of your order. I ordered 12 pounds of beef neck bones and didn't bother opening the box when I picked them up on Saturday. The picture below doesn't convey how huge they were. My husband, the non-dog person, valiantly tried to cut them up but it was tough. Thankfully, the butcher cheerfully cut them for us when we returned.