Health Guarantee Question - Page 1

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by Quasette on 24 June 2009 - 17:06

We are devastated that our beautiful, sweet White GSD died last week unexpectedly at only 15 months. Necropsy proved it was Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy which I understand is genetic. Breeder's contract health guarantee states "If you purchased a Pet Quality Puppy and the puppy is unable to live a normal pet life due to discomfort from a genetic condition you will be given a replacement puppy of equal value." Breeder has offered replacement puppy, however, they no longer breed WS or black and that is all we are interested in. Currently they are trying to give away the 5 year old Sire (before they knew of our dog's passing) and they no longer have Dam.

1. Our dog was not in discomfort, he died, would a reputable breeder offer the choice of money back or new puppy?
2. How can we make sure the parents, all siblings of our dog and possibly cousins are notified so they can be tested before breed?
3. If the breeder can't get us another WS to "replace" ours since they no longer breed them...should they give money back?
4. Should breeder pay for necropsy since they will definitely benefit from the knowledge.




by kioanes on 24 June 2009 - 18:06

sorry for your loss.

1 - contract says a puppy
2 - you probably can't
3 - contract says a puppy; maybe they would make an offer of $ but are not obligated.  unless there is some contractual language of 'same color puppy' you are stuck
4 - maybe, depends on how contract is written regarding health expenses

the great personality of the GSD is not color-dependent.  take a replacement pup & start enjoying him/her.

by happyday on 24 June 2009 - 19:06

It sounds like the breeder offered you a choice of a new puppy.  If the contract stated replacement of new puppy - you cant really rewrite the agreement - I think the breeder has offered what he said he would on the initial purchase of your first puppy.  Even though he is no longer  breeding the type of pup you where interested in to begin with - he is willing to do what he said he would do - replace your pup.  I don't think because 15 months later he is no longer in the business of WS or black's that would constitute refund of money....

2 As far as making sure parents, siblings and cousins are notified - is the breeder willing to give you all this information?  That could be a large undertaking for you - not to mention if the breeder did give you all this information - would the person you are contacting appreciate your efforts...

3.  No he shouldn't pay for it - it wasn't in the agreement..  That would be his option to gain knowledge - but are you wanting to demand him to pay for it?

My comment would be on your next puppy - have a more outlined contract - if you sign a contract and something happens to your pup - you cant go add stuff to the original agreement - I know it is impossible to for see things that come up and when you are signing that contract you don't think of these things - like are you going to sell WS/black for the rest of your life, if my dog does develop genetic problems will you pay for a autopsy. 

If the breeder is giving away the sire - you liked his offspring - why not take him.... I am afraid if you don't and you don't desire the breedings he is currently offering - are out your money.

sueincc

by sueincc on 25 June 2009 - 01:06

I am so sorry for your loss.  I agree with what has already been posted.  If your dog is listed on PedigreeDataBase, you may want to add cause of death to the comments section, someone researching pedigrees or potential breedings may find the information useful.

by chuckie on 25 June 2009 - 05:06

and just for the record--at least your breeder is attempting to honor the contract. i discovered thru personal experience that, believe it or not, most contracts w/breeders (i said "most" not "all"), you just as well use to start the BBQ briquettes.

whether or not you accept the pup available is completely up to you. be aware (fr the sound of this breeder) you may not get another chance at it, but you may be better off in the long run. JMO and JME. 

Liesjers

by Liesjers on 25 June 2009 - 16:06

IMHO...

1.  Whatever the contract states
2.  Hopefully the breeder would, or at least disclosed if asked
3.  No, unless the contract was explicit about color
4.  No.  It would be a nice gesture but I would not expect it.  You could say the same about all the hip and elbow prelims, OFAs, CERFs, etc for every dog the breeder has bred.  It's really the owner's choice/responsibility unless the contract addresses it specifically.

by kendra on 20 August 2009 - 03:08

Hello to all,  I am BEAR'S BREEDER...  Kimberly Lantz of Patchwork Shepherds.   First off I will say that I AM breeding solid blacks and DID offer a solid black one.  I DID offer a replacement pup but will not be offering anything other than that.  I am doing EVERYTHING that my contract states.  I did not go looking for buyers for the pup.  They came to me and knowingly signed a contract.  I will say that NEVER in these lines have there EVER been this sort of health condition. I will and am offering a black puppy to replace the dog lost or any other color of pup that I have.  I am no longer breeding whites only because I prefer the dark dogs.  I do think that it is unfair of this woman to bring in anyone breeding a dog that is related being as how it happens to be the sire's breeder and this dog has been tested free of this condition and NEVER has it been in the lines.  I am offering everything I say in my contract to this woman and her family along with our deepest condolences.  Although we are sorry to hear of Bear's passing we stand by the fact that we do everything to ensure the health of our puppies and can not see into the future as to what dogs may have what.  I do not believe that we are responsible for any medical costs of getting the dogs autopsy done. We were not notified at the time of the dogs passing and were only notified several weeks after autopsy was done and therefore it was her own decision to do this.  I will stand by my having done everything in my power to ensure a healthy dog and will honor the contract given.   I have NOTHING to hide on any of my dogs and will be very open with any dogs problems.  I do not expect that every dog that I produce or have to be free of EVERY problem in the world as we can only do what is humanly possible to insure the best of health.  We realize that no dog is without defect of some sort.    Please to everyone who reads this post understand that they can come to me the breeder and I will be open in all things.  Please also understand that this problem has NEVER occurred in any other dog from these lines.  I can say that with certainty because I have personally met parents, grandparents and even GREAT GREAT grandparents and know these lines PERSONALLY.    


by Standhaft on 20 August 2009 - 05:08

Thank you for posting, Kimberly (Kendra).  You have a great reputation as a breeder and it is well known that you stand behind your contract.  I was very sad to hear of Bear's unexpected death.

Quasette (Laurie), although I deeply sympathize with you in the loss of your dog, I must point out that the condition that your dog died from has NOT been proven to be genetic.  In fact, most vets will agree that there are MANY things that can lead to this heart problem - virus exposure (specifically parvo), bacterial infections, taurine deficiencies and other ENVIRONMENTAL factors are just as commonly associated with this condition as attempting to link it to being hereditary.  I know the bloodlines of your dog extremely well and in fact owned most of the dogs in the background of your dog as I have been breeding these lines for well over 20 years and this is the very first case of this disease EVER to be reported. I keep in very good contact with my puppy buyers and if it were genetic, I certainly would have seen it come up in the past 20 years.  The specific condition your dog died from is actually quite rare in dogs.

I co-own your pup's parents, Quasette, and know the sire and dam particularly well.  Sadie, the dam is soon to be 10 years old and one of the healthiest shepherds I have seen, her sire lived to be 12 and has offspring worldwisde and her dam lived to be 13, both with no health problems.  Sadie is still living at Patchwork shepherds and going as strong as ever.  The sire, Doc, is six years old and again, a very healthy dog.  He was not "given away" due to any problem whatsoever.  He was placed on a co-ownership with a local family who offered to give him a home fit for a king, and we could not refuse.  Kim and I still retain stud rights.  His sire is 10 years old and still very healthy as well and has been an extremely popular stud dog with offspring all over the world.  His dam just recently passed away at the age of 10.  I could go on with the health and vitality of yet the grandparents, but I say all this to state that the bloodlines your dog was from ARE good bloodlines.  They were health tested and lived long healthy lives.  These are not bloodlines that were only bred a few times with little background.  These were planned breedings, many repeat breedings and combinations of similiar lines to the two that were put together to produce your pups have been made many times. We have willingly contributed to the White shepherd genetics project, knowledge of all genetic conditions our dogs have produced since the beginning of the creation of that project.  We will continue to do this as we feel this is the best way to find links to conditions that are already proven genetic and those that are only yet speculated to be genetic. 

I think sometimes pet owners do not understand all the hard work and dedication that goes into being a breeder.  You cannot guarantee a dog like a new car.  They are living breathing creatures and when parts fail they cannot simply be replaced with new ones.  The most that any breeder can do is breed healthy animals with correct structure and temperament and hope that all goes well.  When, in the rare case that something does turn out, like a young dog who dies prematurely from a heart condition, be it genetic or not, all a breeder can do is replace the puppy with another.  I don't think it is fair to expect any more. 

Respectfully,
Rhonda McMahan, SureFire Shepherds
 


GSDPACK

by GSDPACK on 20 August 2009 - 17:08

Breeder offering to back up the promise of a contract.
That is good!  You should take it and if you do not want a dog from this breeder find another one.
Pack


by crhuerta on 20 August 2009 - 19:08

I agree.





 


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