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by GSDNewbie on 02 June 2011 - 18:06
This thread is not about outing people selling but is about the selling lingo and what to look for that is scammy, so people can learn that are reading this what to look for and sellers techniques that you have to watch the wording on so that you know what to check behind breeders on and make at least a chance at buying from a reputable dealer and getting a good pup. I personally have found gsd shopping to be the singular worst expereince ever in all my years of enjoying dogs.
This ad from a breeder on this website that I saw today that sparked this idea for a thread to help people get past the bs jargon.
Starts off with a litter that is OMG AKC registered so they have to be awesome right?
Wrong, AKC will issue registration papers for however many pups a breeders "says" was born to a stud and a bitch that the owner swears is the biological parents of said litter. There are no inspection, no witnesses no set in stone they are telling the truth. AKC does not certify a dog is a good representaive of the breed to gain registration papers to puppies.In short the AKC papers are only as good as the care and the honesty of the breeder determining if the papers would serve better as litter bedding or if you have a good representaion of the breed in buying from them. Know a breeder Know their dogs. Understand what the dog is to be as the true responibility of buying a puppy is yours and knowing what you need to know before buying one.
but do not get to excited they advertise "All puppies are sold with limited AKC registration, if you are seeking breeding rights, please contact us." That is to be a good thing and shows they care right? WRONG it is supposed to be a good thing to limit the breeding rights yes but the following statement from their website shows it is just a matter of money to cure the problem not because they are so careful in what is bred. "All puppies are sold with limited registration. However, selected puppies may be sold with full breeding rights." If the breeder is limiting for a good reason because they care it will be because they do not want a dog they have already put their kennel name on pumping out mediocre pups because they sell based on the name the pups wear. Not always is this because they care about the breeding but because they care about their kennel rep. The ones that will allow you to breed if you title your puppy lifting the limited are doing so either because they care or because the more you get titles on a puppy wearing their kennel name the more their kennel is seen and advertised ;) It truly is about marketing folks.
"We breed German Shepherds for protection, intelligence, temperament and to better the breed."
The new breeder reason to breed these days is playing on the personal protection lable. Hey, we can advertise a reason to breed non titled dogs and cut through the hard work and cost and not look like a sad breeder if we say our dogs are chosen for protection because it is harder to determine if we actually do anything with our dogs to prove them.
"During the 8+ weeks we have the puppies we perform touch conditioning by both men and women, sound conditioning, obstacle course training, car rides, play, fetch, basic commands, nail trimmings, brushing, bathing, and leash training. They also have been exposed to water, children, other animals and people. "
All in 8 weeks? Really? you mean both women and men changed papers and moved the puppies around and you had children in the home, and trip to hopefully the vet check counts as a car riding dog, They know "fetch" at 8 weeks when I buy my puppy? They can walk on a leash to? ...... USE COMMON sense and look at snake oils sales
This ad from a breeder on this website that I saw today that sparked this idea for a thread to help people get past the bs jargon.
Starts off with a litter that is OMG AKC registered so they have to be awesome right?
Wrong, AKC will issue registration papers for however many pups a breeders "says" was born to a stud and a bitch that the owner swears is the biological parents of said litter. There are no inspection, no witnesses no set in stone they are telling the truth. AKC does not certify a dog is a good representaive of the breed to gain registration papers to puppies.In short the AKC papers are only as good as the care and the honesty of the breeder determining if the papers would serve better as litter bedding or if you have a good representaion of the breed in buying from them. Know a breeder Know their dogs. Understand what the dog is to be as the true responibility of buying a puppy is yours and knowing what you need to know before buying one.
but do not get to excited they advertise "All puppies are sold with limited AKC registration, if you are seeking breeding rights, please contact us." That is to be a good thing and shows they care right? WRONG it is supposed to be a good thing to limit the breeding rights yes but the following statement from their website shows it is just a matter of money to cure the problem not because they are so careful in what is bred. "All puppies are sold with limited registration. However, selected puppies may be sold with full breeding rights." If the breeder is limiting for a good reason because they care it will be because they do not want a dog they have already put their kennel name on pumping out mediocre pups because they sell based on the name the pups wear. Not always is this because they care about the breeding but because they care about their kennel rep. The ones that will allow you to breed if you title your puppy lifting the limited are doing so either because they care or because the more you get titles on a puppy wearing their kennel name the more their kennel is seen and advertised ;) It truly is about marketing folks.
"We breed German Shepherds for protection, intelligence, temperament and to better the breed."
The new breeder reason to breed these days is playing on the personal protection lable. Hey, we can advertise a reason to breed non titled dogs and cut through the hard work and cost and not look like a sad breeder if we say our dogs are chosen for protection because it is harder to determine if we actually do anything with our dogs to prove them.
"During the 8+ weeks we have the puppies we perform touch conditioning by both men and women, sound conditioning, obstacle course training, car rides, play, fetch, basic commands, nail trimmings, brushing, bathing, and leash training. They also have been exposed to water, children, other animals and people. "
All in 8 weeks? Really? you mean both women and men changed papers and moved the puppies around and you had children in the home, and trip to hopefully the vet check counts as a car riding dog, They know "fetch" at 8 weeks when I buy my puppy? They can walk on a leash to? ...... USE COMMON sense and look at snake oils sales
by GSDNewbie on 02 June 2011 - 18:06
This one rescues and has on the front page if you know anyone that needs to rehome their gsd to contact them.
They have NO standards for breeding other than the dog is registerable with AKC Makes me wonder if the dogs they bred were obtained in this way. Not all breeders saying they rescue are rescueing these dogs for a better life.
They say the parents are imported to their sire...... um not. Leanr how to read pedigrees. Learn what is not said versus what should be on there and is missing. 98 percent of byb in the USA will make claims of lines from Germany that have not seen Germany for generations. The info on the pedigree once understood will tell the truth of origins and how the lines has been cared for take the time to learn what everything means backwards and forwards.
"He is gentle and loving and a fantastic guard dog. He does great with bite sleeve training. This dog wants to learn and do things right. His pedigree includes Police K-9's and titles such as SVV1."
Really? Then buy from the dogs in the pedigree that are the working dogs not the dogs being bred related to the dogs that earned it. Give the people who did the work with their dogs your money not the leeches trying to steal from their hard work. The statement under the sire has so much more wrong than what I pointed out but I have a feeling I will be running out of space soon lol
They do not even name the bitch to the litter all they have to say about it is this
"Beautiful long hair German Shepherd with a loving and protective personality. Great temperament for other animals, kids and people. Long hair German Shepherds are very rare, less than 10% of all GSD's. "
Coats are rare? WOW come on really? This was more than likly a rescue they accepted to "rehome" so they cannot post who she is in case previous owner sees and even if not really? I am just slack jawed!
Oh they want over 600 per pup and not one mention of health testing but they do have that they offer guarantee but they do not list one?
They have NO standards for breeding other than the dog is registerable with AKC Makes me wonder if the dogs they bred were obtained in this way. Not all breeders saying they rescue are rescueing these dogs for a better life.
They say the parents are imported to their sire...... um not. Leanr how to read pedigrees. Learn what is not said versus what should be on there and is missing. 98 percent of byb in the USA will make claims of lines from Germany that have not seen Germany for generations. The info on the pedigree once understood will tell the truth of origins and how the lines has been cared for take the time to learn what everything means backwards and forwards.
"He is gentle and loving and a fantastic guard dog. He does great with bite sleeve training. This dog wants to learn and do things right. His pedigree includes Police K-9's and titles such as SVV1."
Really? Then buy from the dogs in the pedigree that are the working dogs not the dogs being bred related to the dogs that earned it. Give the people who did the work with their dogs your money not the leeches trying to steal from their hard work. The statement under the sire has so much more wrong than what I pointed out but I have a feeling I will be running out of space soon lol
They do not even name the bitch to the litter all they have to say about it is this
"Beautiful long hair German Shepherd with a loving and protective personality. Great temperament for other animals, kids and people. Long hair German Shepherds are very rare, less than 10% of all GSD's. "
Coats are rare? WOW come on really? This was more than likly a rescue they accepted to "rehome" so they cannot post who she is in case previous owner sees and even if not really? I am just slack jawed!
Oh they want over 600 per pup and not one mention of health testing but they do have that they offer guarantee but they do not list one?
by vonissk on 02 June 2011 - 21:06
Newbie OMG I swear you and I think so much alike. The reason being I saw that very same ad today and was going to comment on it then I decided I said enough on the last thread so maybe I should give it a rest. I about choked on my tea when I read how rare the coated shepherds are. And when I went and looked at the pedigree with many many SVV1s in it I just shook my head. In the female's pedigree there are 2 titled dogs--neither an SVV1 and the males no dogs I--or probably anyone elseever heard of...................shame shame shame...........
by Sunsilver on 02 June 2011 - 22:06
The ones that make me want to throw up are the ones that say "Future Seiger' or "proven bitch/stud, out of VA parents, great conformation and movement..."
then show a dog that is so deformed/extreme in conformation that it looks like it can barely walk!
The really bad ones wind up in my infamous ugly dog file, along with the ridiculous text from the ad!
then show a dog that is so deformed/extreme in conformation that it looks like it can barely walk!
The really bad ones wind up in my infamous ugly dog file, along with the ridiculous text from the ad!
by Red Sable on 02 June 2011 - 22:06
LOL Sunsilver, I agree.
by GSDNewbie on 02 June 2011 - 22:06
lol vonissk, I thought about it, walked away, played ball with my dog and yeah if I were not already irritated by the other bad breeder I probably could have left it alone. The breeder on other thread has been shipping so many dogs to England I have to wonder how much they are responsible for the what 32 accepted colors over there in the gsd?
I am sick of everyone trying to make a buck off them, really. If you are into gsds because you love their intelligence, because you love working them, because you watch the beauty and power in them with awe, because you love the loyalty and the bond they have that I have found uncomparable in any other breed, because they make any day the best with the love they hold in their eyes always loving you and never judging you, you to would hate this kind of breeders ruining the dogs. Cherish and support what you love in them. Protect them as much as they protect you.
I know the forum went through many changes but I missed the one that says it is a workingline gsd forum.
I am sick of everyone trying to make a buck off them, really. If you are into gsds because you love their intelligence, because you love working them, because you watch the beauty and power in them with awe, because you love the loyalty and the bond they have that I have found uncomparable in any other breed, because they make any day the best with the love they hold in their eyes always loving you and never judging you, you to would hate this kind of breeders ruining the dogs. Cherish and support what you love in them. Protect them as much as they protect you.
I know the forum went through many changes but I missed the one that says it is a workingline gsd forum.
by vonissk on 02 June 2011 - 23:06
Sunsilver I hear ya!!! When I was at the last UKC show there was a showlines dog there that had bowed pasterns. It couldn't walk right much less gait right. Anyway I went over to the girl and chatted with her a minute and asked where she got the dog. She told me I came home and looked up the website. The husband is a k9 officer and the wife is a UKC judge. You think they would know structure etc. Prices--for the dog the girl had 3000 and up for full registration and showable. OKey dokey...............
And Newbie I love your eloquence with words in describing the greatest breed ever. I feel every day they show me something different. And I do hate to see these so called breeders who claim to be doing so much for them when they are ruining them step by step. I live in a very small rural community where everyone knows everyone and people always want to talk about the dogs. The things they tell me are just unbelieveable. And I wonder where in the heck did they get that idea? If they only knew the faithfulness, loyalty and intelligence of the GSD they might have a different outlook. But when their dog is outside on a chain or just a " yard dog" how can they know? A lot of people think I have a screw loose because I have my dogs in the house--how can I live like this blah blah blah. Whatever. I know when all is said and done they will still be by my side when all people have failed me...................and vice versa--I am just as loyal to them.
And Newbie I love your eloquence with words in describing the greatest breed ever. I feel every day they show me something different. And I do hate to see these so called breeders who claim to be doing so much for them when they are ruining them step by step. I live in a very small rural community where everyone knows everyone and people always want to talk about the dogs. The things they tell me are just unbelieveable. And I wonder where in the heck did they get that idea? If they only knew the faithfulness, loyalty and intelligence of the GSD they might have a different outlook. But when their dog is outside on a chain or just a " yard dog" how can they know? A lot of people think I have a screw loose because I have my dogs in the house--how can I live like this blah blah blah. Whatever. I know when all is said and done they will still be by my side when all people have failed me...................and vice versa--I am just as loyal to them.
by GSDNewbie on 03 June 2011 - 00:06
I spent 7 years in an area like that near Carlisle PA. I also am not a fan of UKC. I have found here in TN is a ton of poorly bred GSDS and dog ignorance in general. I thought the puppy mills and byb were strong in number in PA but I have found it is the same here as well. No wonder we have to kill so many dogs a year. First thing they have to say is my puppies do not end up in shelters.... um yeah remember that ignorance I spoke of? If 2 and 3 thousand dollar well bred dogs are in shelters these days why would their be exempt from the fate?
by vonissk on 03 June 2011 - 01:06
I started in UKC because I knew they put working dogs up and also because I had heard how friendly it was etc etc, family oriented and all that. Maybe it is somewhere but the one closest to me obviously hasn't heard of all that--it is very political and I'd say half the judges--for our breed--either has no clue of the standard or just out and out chooses to ignore it. Also those particular judges at least half of them are color blind and will put up a blk/tan/red dog over a sable or black any day regardless of it's structure. And I am not just talking about mine and my friend's dogs--I've seen others get booted to the back of the line also. I am a person who likes to finish what I start--I lack one competitive win on my girl and when I get that, I am done.
I read a very interesting quote in the GSDCA Review last month. I'd like to share it here. I am thinking about making it my signature on my email.
" The purpose then of judging is to participate in the betterment of the breeding of purebred dogs. This demands that those who undertake the charge of judging do so with the most serious intent of purpose, for what they do in the ring can have important and long-lasting consequences on the quality of dogs in the future. If an individual does not have these goals in mind. he is illadvised to undertake a career as a judge at dog shows." (from The Science and Technique of Judging Dogs by Robert J. Berndt, 2001, Apline Productions)
I read a very interesting quote in the GSDCA Review last month. I'd like to share it here. I am thinking about making it my signature on my email.
" The purpose then of judging is to participate in the betterment of the breeding of purebred dogs. This demands that those who undertake the charge of judging do so with the most serious intent of purpose, for what they do in the ring can have important and long-lasting consequences on the quality of dogs in the future. If an individual does not have these goals in mind. he is illadvised to undertake a career as a judge at dog shows." (from The Science and Technique of Judging Dogs by Robert J. Berndt, 2001, Apline Productions)
by Bhaugh on 03 June 2011 - 16:06
What pisses me off: 80% of the ads on here are from people who buy titled dogs FROM other kennels, name them and claim to produce great puppies when they themselves have never titled a dog in their life or put in the time. I would love to see some distinction between owner bred and titled dogs from owner who buys a dog on the back of someone else.
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