Positive reinforcement - Page 1

So, question, thoughts, etc.

Do you guys believe that ALL, meaning 100% of dogs will work with just doing positive only techniques, absolutely never requiring anything negative...ever...?  If not, when do you believe something negative is required, and give an example.  Do you believe that telling a dog "no" is negative, or leave it is negative?  I've just been hearing some crazy things lately, that even telling "Fido" to leave it, or no, is not something you should ever do to a dog. I personally believe many, many dogs do most everything with positive only, but that certain dogs do require corrections,  and not every single dog will work for 100% positive only.

I will admit over the past few months, I'm doing so much more positive and my views have changed a lot in that aspect, but I will always tell my personal dogs no, or leave it if there is something they shouldn't have.  I know some who act like even THAT is abusive to an animal....I personally think those who think that, are nuts. For other people's dogs I work with I use mostly all positive, but I remember one dog I worked with, treats, toys, praise, etc, did nothing for him.  Nor would he work for any of it. 

So in your guys opinions, what would you consider negative?  Have you ever worked with a dog, whether your personal dog, a clients dog who was in need of training, rehabilitation, etc, or even a competition dog of yours, who absolutely needed a physical correction or required something negative?

What about dogs who have sucessfully killed other animals or dogs?

I'll start the thread at that, and let it expand from there.

I train using positive methods.
But I correct, hard, fast and fair. Correction is necessary.  It is how the K9 learns boundaries.  A correction can be anything from an uh uh to a grab the dog by both cheeks and lift it off the ground. Try to work a border patrol line without correction and then come back to me on this :) LOL Some dogs need it others don't . Not black and white for sure.  A 20 minute down stay is a harsh correction from me but not physical.  It gets the point across especially if you take out a second dog and start to work with them! 

If your 18 month old male tried to bite you for walking past his crate (door open) would a correction be warranted?  or would ya give him a cookie?

brynjulf I laughed out loud at your last statement. I do agree that they are necessary at times. Thanks for your input on the thread as well. I'm hoping to see what many others have to say on the matter, situations, and things related to what all I mentioned.

I train mainly using positive methods for young puppies & behavior modification. Once the puppy has mature loving to train plus knows the commands completely I will had a mild correction for disobeying.
Mild corrections normally are verbal, collar correction of some kind, or refusal of food / toy. I don't believe in never using the word no or leave it but I try not to use the words with young puppies, instead I redirect them or set them up for positive results. Once again as they mature they must learn boundaries & consequences for inappropriate actions through the use of learning No / wrong / leave-it.

By hand feeding new dogs / puppies & controling all their resources it's very easy to get the desire results you want through positive methods. When the dog is strongly bonded with you, you've built the trust, & established all good things in the dogs life comes directly from you by working with you, you'll have a wonderful working partner. Dogs will push their boundaries, test your limits, or make mistakes sometimes. Each need to be dealt with in a fair manner to the dog for the level of the negative behavior displayed. Behavior modification should be done using mostly positive methods in order to correct issues.

I don't allow / tolerate aggressive behavior with my dogs toward me or with each other. If they decide to try any aggression behaviors in front of me, then they quickly see I side of me they most likely never saw before.
That alone normally startles them enough for not doing a repeat performance. Some dogs need more reminders of proper behavior through corrections than others.


I believe all effective training methods are positive if they don't hurt the dog physical or their spirt. It's best to have a well behaved dog through training if you use just positive methods or not, than to have a out of control dog that will normal ultimately end up in a shelter because of it's unruly behavior. So, purely positive might not be cruel if it works for your dog, but if not then the owners dogs become aggessive then gets left at the shelter or put down, then that method ultimately wasn't the most positive for that dog. Vice versa if a very nice dog gets ruined through overly hard training methods that push that dog to it's breaking point.


Every dog needs a balance of positive rewards & learn boundaries through corrections. A child raised giving everything they want & never told No or given boundaries become spoled & normally lack morals later in life.   

A child raised given everything they want & never told No or given boundaries will become spoiled,  lack morals  and be a lazy ass SOB

I don't really care whether ALL dogs CAN be trained that way or not.  I'm sure some can and those trainers swear by it.  Mine won't be because it's unrealistic for me as a handler and way too much effort than it's worth.  The most important thing is that I am clear, consistent, and fair.  That is what my dogs appreciate about training.  They are not so soft that they are going to melt because I use a verbal or leash correction.  There are some behaviors I train 100% start to finish pure freeshaping with a clicker and treats, and some that I train 100% pure escape training with a prong collar.

Good thoughts from everyone.  hejnye it's sad that people have even been in trouble by the law for spanking their child in public. Kids need discipline, definitely.  VKGSDs I agree on it being unrealistic as well. I like to do mostly positive, but even in my case.....I have a pack of dogs who have killed animals before, animals who got in our yard of course....But if a rabbit, possum, deer, racoon,  or some other type of animal gets in my yard...I know good and well the "come here fido"/give treat does not work on them, I've tried it. They in no way want to listen to that.  The pack gets on the thrill of the chase, and killing the prey is on their mind....not to mention, it's a pack of Huskies. Such an extreme instinct on their part. It's a big fenced in yard, that is gated....so my dogs don't go wandering off to kill these things, but the animals get in since it's a wire fence and the square holes in the fence are like 4 inches wide/tall.  No deer have been in before, but they have killed rabbits, squirrels, possums, cats, a racoon (If I can find that picture I'll upload it), etc etc that were in our yard.  These things were in the yard with the gate closed, and I didn't even know it those times, let the dogs out...and within seconds they caught and killed the prey.  These are things that I don't want them to kill, I'm sure they carry risk of parasites and other things, so of course now I yell out NO, or ENOUGH!....followed by the command to come here.  And that works, and continues to work thankfully.  If I just call them to me though....I can hang it up, they're not going to listen.

In the wild, if wolf pups get out of hand the mother puts her jaws over there sholders and gives a firm squeeze, they yelp, it hurts. The will get this for anyting from being to rambunctous out of turn, to nursing when she is weening them. Even a female with pups will correct them. All mine have anyhow. So why in the world would we believe positive only reinforcement would work? I believe a combaniation of the two is best. As I firmly believe you must have positive praise for a good done, you can not tolerate some behaviors, and the correction must be swift and firm. I think a dog that is not corrected will continue to push the boundry just like a child. What are you going to say, "Good Boy plaing with the kids.", as he is draging the bleeding screaming tottler through the yard?

I like to take serious problem dogs to positive trainers and watch them waffle around baffled. 

I am waiting for the likes of Kacey Cover to come up with a way to train Mondio all positive with all different temperaments. I have not heard back on that. I do know of one person that put a Sch3 on his dog with all positive, but it was home field and helpers, one time. Still pretty dang good.

I would love to see an all temperament, successful positive method show up, just don't believe it is possible.