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by LadyFrost on 23 May 2011 - 14:05
I did not think i would be having fear issue but here it is....
just discovered that my dog is fear aggressive towards: skinny, tall guys (discovered this at SAR training/introduction/orientation on Saturday)....WTF? it was the worst time for her to show that......never had issues with her...she has been everywhere with me, kids can approach, women, chunky man - no problem what so ever...but tall skinny man and she becomes a fear biter (two man at the training were disliked by her as soon as they approached, ears back, tail straight, feet wide apart, whites in her eyes and she kind of lunges towards stretched out hand)...has not bit yet...i am just taken back...and very surprised (mildly put)....
k-9 handler on site said she is scared of these type of man, and not to correct her because if she is corrected when i can tell she is getting nervous she will know not to show her fear but lunge and bite without warning....
since this is my first time dealing with fear biter who is also handler sensitive (which i can and been working with), and i guess somewhat nervous dog in new areas/locations, where should i start? any suggestions?..more exposure to public?
few key points...she is okay in crowds, down towns, around people, in stores, around most dogs, around kids, good with women....it looks like once someone focuses on her and come up face to face with only 2-3 people around she gets nervous, direct eye contact with a stranger makes her unsure, with me and anyone she knows she has no issues with eye contact and holds eye contact very well...if she approaches them (strangers) she is okay ...tail wag, sniff, not totally comfortable, little shy but still comes forward and greets....
also, I been warned by a vet that her being in constant even low level of pain would make her self consious or nervous...could that be true? but than why is it selective few not every stranger?....
just discovered that my dog is fear aggressive towards: skinny, tall guys (discovered this at SAR training/introduction/orientation on Saturday)....WTF? it was the worst time for her to show that......never had issues with her...she has been everywhere with me, kids can approach, women, chunky man - no problem what so ever...but tall skinny man and she becomes a fear biter (two man at the training were disliked by her as soon as they approached, ears back, tail straight, feet wide apart, whites in her eyes and she kind of lunges towards stretched out hand)...has not bit yet...i am just taken back...and very surprised (mildly put)....
k-9 handler on site said she is scared of these type of man, and not to correct her because if she is corrected when i can tell she is getting nervous she will know not to show her fear but lunge and bite without warning....
since this is my first time dealing with fear biter who is also handler sensitive (which i can and been working with), and i guess somewhat nervous dog in new areas/locations, where should i start? any suggestions?..more exposure to public?
few key points...she is okay in crowds, down towns, around people, in stores, around most dogs, around kids, good with women....it looks like once someone focuses on her and come up face to face with only 2-3 people around she gets nervous, direct eye contact with a stranger makes her unsure, with me and anyone she knows she has no issues with eye contact and holds eye contact very well...if she approaches them (strangers) she is okay ...tail wag, sniff, not totally comfortable, little shy but still comes forward and greets....
also, I been warned by a vet that her being in constant even low level of pain would make her self consious or nervous...could that be true? but than why is it selective few not every stranger?....
by JWALKER on 23 May 2011 - 15:05
LadyFrost how old is this girl?
by LadyFrost on 23 May 2011 - 15:05
13 months....it's Bailey...of all dogs...i am still in disbelief, I swear this dog will be the death of me...between health issues, personality and now temperament...
by Sunsilver on 23 May 2011 - 15:05
I have a fearful dog. A couple of things to work on: attention and focus. Do it at home. When the dog looks at you, give a treat. The goal is to get her to focus on you in ALL situations, including the one she is frightened of. You are her security, and the source of everything good. She needs to be confident that YOU will protect her. Gradually introduce distractions that cause anxiety, and reward her for switching her focus from the distraction back to you.
Another thing to do is tell the person she is reacting to NOT to focus on her, and especially not to extend their hand. Have them ignore her. Once she relaxes, you might try having them stand beside her, or bring her up beside them in a group of people.
Your trainer is right to say not to discipline her. It will just increase her anxiety.
Since this has JUST cropped up, I think you can lick it with a little work. However, it WILL take patience, and lots of time. Her fear may seem totally irrational to you, unless a tall, skinny guy did something to hurt her, and this can make you lose your patience.
Another thing to do is tell the person she is reacting to NOT to focus on her, and especially not to extend their hand. Have them ignore her. Once she relaxes, you might try having them stand beside her, or bring her up beside them in a group of people.
Your trainer is right to say not to discipline her. It will just increase her anxiety.
Since this has JUST cropped up, I think you can lick it with a little work. However, it WILL take patience, and lots of time. Her fear may seem totally irrational to you, unless a tall, skinny guy did something to hurt her, and this can make you lose your patience.
by Slamdunc on 23 May 2011 - 15:05
LF,
I think you missed all of the signs early on, like the raised hackles around people to begin with. I think your male has temperament issues as well. From what you describe she is definitely not a SAR candidate. I doubt it is only tall skinny guys that make your dog insecure and aggressive, it is a combination of environment, new surroundings and how people approach your dog. She might be a little overwhelmed in large crowds and doesn't single any one in particular out. If you are considering SAR as a hobby or something fun to do with your dog, she might be ok. If you are considering actually doing SAR work you need to find a different dog to use. There is a slight chance with tons of work and proper socialization she might come around, but after re-reading your post I really doubt it. I would think the SAR group nicely recommended not bringing her back to training.
FWIW
I think you missed all of the signs early on, like the raised hackles around people to begin with. I think your male has temperament issues as well. From what you describe she is definitely not a SAR candidate. I doubt it is only tall skinny guys that make your dog insecure and aggressive, it is a combination of environment, new surroundings and how people approach your dog. She might be a little overwhelmed in large crowds and doesn't single any one in particular out. If you are considering SAR as a hobby or something fun to do with your dog, she might be ok. If you are considering actually doing SAR work you need to find a different dog to use. There is a slight chance with tons of work and proper socialization she might come around, but after re-reading your post I really doubt it. I would think the SAR group nicely recommended not bringing her back to training.
FWIW
by Slamdunc on 23 May 2011 - 15:05
Sunsilver,
You can modify behavior but you can not fix a weak temperament. The underlying issues will always be there and will eventually come out when stressed. A dog that shows anxiety, insecurity and fear based aggression can still make a nice pet but not a serious SAR dog. A well run SAR group will tell you the same thing, this dog is not cut out for SAR.
Jim
You can modify behavior but you can not fix a weak temperament. The underlying issues will always be there and will eventually come out when stressed. A dog that shows anxiety, insecurity and fear based aggression can still make a nice pet but not a serious SAR dog. A well run SAR group will tell you the same thing, this dog is not cut out for SAR.
Jim
by LadyFrost on 23 May 2011 - 15:05
I hate to say it but you may be right Slamdunc......i guess i will have to go through a denial stage sooner or later...i wish you can see her at home...ball crazy through and through...we did some tracking (homemade..) she did awesome, hiding her ball in empty boxes, boxes filled with stuff, hiding it through out yard, she finds it and tracks it where it rolled if its thrown without her seeing it, she knows the difference between "find" it where she has to scan and cover large areas of the yard versus "smell it" where she follows me and sniffs every inch on area where my hand points.......
I think its partially my fault because outside of the house/yard ball was never used and she was never taught to go after it anywhere and any time...she is perfectly obedient and she does and can turn on / off "ball crazy" ...so I think i will see if i can keep bringing her to the team/training as a hobby, and see where it takes her.....meanwhile i would still need to figure out the fear issue...like i said I never really had that.
I had dogs not liking specific people, or having their space invaded, defencive dog..but never fear...
I think its partially my fault because outside of the house/yard ball was never used and she was never taught to go after it anywhere and any time...she is perfectly obedient and she does and can turn on / off "ball crazy" ...so I think i will see if i can keep bringing her to the team/training as a hobby, and see where it takes her.....meanwhile i would still need to figure out the fear issue...like i said I never really had that.
I had dogs not liking specific people, or having their space invaded, defencive dog..but never fear...
by ggturner on 23 May 2011 - 15:05
Is Bailey your dog with HD? Sorry for your health and temperament issues. I think Jim has wise advice.
by LadyFrost on 23 May 2011 - 16:05
yep..one and the same.... she is like a treasure chest of bad surprises...LOL..
never the less she is mine, and her and I will have to figure this out one way or the other...but she is not going anywhere, issues or not.
never the less she is mine, and her and I will have to figure this out one way or the other...but she is not going anywhere, issues or not.
by clee27 on 23 May 2011 - 16:05
I like your commitment and I wish I had some insight, but clearly you know I don't, lol. I did wonder if there was anything to your thoughts about pain making her more sensitive to certain things. Good luck- Jen
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