Question for breeders and K9SAR Handlers - Page 1

Hi Everyone,

Someone suggested I look for my prospect with breeders who have placed dogs in K9SAR homes or for breeders who are SAR personnel themselves. I have asked this question in several SAR specific forums as well, but I also wanted to hear some suggestions from you guys.

Which breeder would you get your next K9SAR prospect from? Who would you recommend?

How many dogs have you placed in working SAR homes?

Of those dogs how many have certified?

Thanks For your Input.

C

hello, I am currently training a young dog in air scent for SAR with HEMSI Search and Rescue Team. She is doing excellent.  She is 15 months old and my goal is to get her FEMA certified in Urban Search and Rescue and Wilderness Air Scent.

In short. I would get a dog from schutzhund/sport stock for a good GSD for SAR.

Reasons:  You are looking for a dog with extreme prey drive and hunt drive. The top breeding stock for these qualities are coming from these venues.  You want the work ethic but not necessarily the seriousness of a PSD or protection dog stock (but this seriousness may be reduced by lots of socialization which is imperative for SAR). 

When team members are looking for a labrador retrievers we send them to Gundog (duck hunting retrievers)  breeders because they have the best breeding stock for high drive labs. When team members are looking for high prey, high work, high hunt drive german shepherds go to where the highest density of those traits exist. When team members are looking for coon dogs for SAR go to coon hunters and night competions competitors.

Now I will say a well rounded GSD rather from schutzhund, psd, ring sports, personal protection, etc should be able to do well in SAR. You want HIGH Drive. 

The breeder of my dog is hudsonhaus kennels, Mr. Larry Hudson. 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/pedigree/654530.html

Which breeder would you get your next K9SAR prospect from? Who would you recommend?

Myself, and again, myself, depending on what kind of certification I was seeking and what I was breeding with at the time.  Most active SAR dogs I've met are what I'd consider an embarassment, much less ideal.  And because of this, I would only trust my own judgement, as most breeders are clueless about SAR work, and most SAR workers clueless about breeding.


How many dogs have you placed in working SAR homes?

Several active SAR homes at  the least, but I do not keep track.  Dozens, who were "considering" it, just like the multitudes of buyers that are "thinking" about doing schutzhund.  My experience is, most people are liars, and their primary intent is to get into breeding.


Of those dogs how many have certified?

Many of them I'm told, but I don't ask for proof, nor care for it.  I find it shameful that there are many cerifying "standards", and buddies that qualify each other's dogs.  Politics in everything.

I correctly bred German Shepherd should have no problem doing SAR. Its not the breeding that makes a SAR its the training. I have seen SAR dogs from all of the lines and successful ones at that.

@ darylehret, I agree. When it comes to GSD's  SAR teams do not have the highest knowledge base. My own SAR TEAM is dominated by labs. Out of team of 15 dogs. 6 dogs are certified and 9 dogs not operational but in training. Out of those 6 certified dogs none of them or shepherds.  We only have 2 shepherds on the team. The one I own and another one.  I initially purchased my dog to participate in schutzhund but when I moved there was not a local club in my area. So I looked in to SAR  and fell in love.

@gustav, saying "I have seen SAR dogs from all of the lines and successful ones at that."  is like saying I have seen show lines successful in schutzhunds. WOW, you've seen all the lines. This statement may be true, but the most successful and percentages go towards the working lines. I would not recommend a show line for SAR. I've been on searches that lasted 14 hours a day, for 4 days straight in the summer. You better have a high drive dog that's willing to work.

All of our dogs that are certified have certifications from several organizations. So this is a way to limit some of the politics.

Our goal is to be the best SAR team in the state through our preformance.

Well James What's the difference in showlines doing Schutzhund. Schutzhund has a standard of requirements and SAR has a standard of requirements. Every GS in Europe reaches this standard to be bred...and likewise to be a CERTIFIED SAR you have to meet the minimum standard. I HAVE seen all types of lines as SAR. NOBODY delineated we were talking about the best dog in the world. Passing a SAR cert is just like passing a Sch cert....if the dog is correctly bred it should be able to do it. And there are SAR dog of all lines that are certified and that is a fact. BTW, there are plenty of showline dogs with high prey drive to do SAR work. Maybe not as many as workinglines, but the standard of certification isn't the biggest toughest dog, the standard is a certain proficiency in certain exercises.

 Hi Everyone,

Thank you for your inputs both on the forum and the PM's I have received.

I agree with you those of you who say that a correctly bred GSD should have no problems doing SAR work.

Gustav, (I am assuming you are a breeder)
You have obviously been with the breed for many years and have an enormous amount of experience.
How many dogs have you placed in SAR homes? Of those how many have certified?

Jamesfountain98,
Thank you. I looked up and made a note of the breeder you recommended.

Darylehret,
I agree that there are a lot of dogs being certified out there that have no business being certified. It's something that bothers greatly me when I think that someone's life could depend on one of those dogs. I feel pretty fortunate that I have not had to deal with any politics.

C

 

@ Gustav, I'm not sure about other teams, but obtaining certifications are not our goal but a way to prepare. You are definitely correct that Certifications are the minimum requirements that can be obtained by different levels or quality of dogs.

@clc, I would talk to SAR personel that not only have obtained certifications, but those who have field experience as dog handlers and multiple recoveries with their own dogs.  I'll be the first to say every certification is not equal and every SAR team is not equal. 

Questions to ask SAR personnel:
How many years have you been involved with SAR?
How many total searches have you been on (dependant on how many years the person has been involved)?
How often is your team called out?
Ask about field experience as a dog handler and recoveries with their own dog?
(should be able to look up news articles about the searches)

Training is like studying for a test
Certifications are the test
Field experience is the surgical doctor potentially saving lives

Our local SAR team is very well trained and well qualified. Wes and Brigitte also have quite a bit of pedigree knowledge (I spent a full Saturday in November talking with them). Website

This kennel breeds from a certified SAR dog, has produced a few, and I own two sons of her male, and they are super.... intensely powerful, driven with a lot of "hunt" drive.

---Mary