Questions About Puppy Temperament and Drive - Page 1

Hi Guys,

Over the Holiday a local breeder called me (heard thru the Grape Vine that I was looking for a puppy) and said that they may have the perfect SAR puppy for me.
He is 10 weeks old.
Bi-color. Not that color makes that big of a difference.
Working line sire with Aly vom Vordersteinwald in his bloodlines.
Show line dam with Pakros d' Ulmental and Ursus von Batu in her bloodlines.
He also has quite a few tracking titles in his pedigree.

Ive' been asking questions on the forum about bloodlines, nutrition, diseases, etc., etc., for about nine months. This will not be my first GSD puppy, but I have never owned a working dog and it has been ten years since I had a puppy in the house.

After meeting the pup and talking with the breeder I went home without the puppy to give myself some time to think about him. Also, several things bothered me :
 
1. He was the last pup left in the litter and the parents were not on the premisis so I did not have anything to compare him too.
2. He was expected to mature to around 90 lbs. That's a big dog for SAR work even if it is wilderness.
3. The dam did not have certified hips, only preliminary and no elbow xrays.
4. It was her first litter so she is unproven in terms of drives and temperament.

In addition, I have some drive and temperament questions I am hoping you can answer for me:

Shouldn't the pup at least enjoy a good pet or scratch (even a brief one) without trying to chew my arm off? He would not let me even pet him. Granted he is only ten weeks old but I do not remember my other shepherd being so mouthy, nor so disinterested in people.

If he had huge toy drive shouldn't he be interested in the toy in an unfamiliar area? He was all for the toy in the house but outside he had almost zero interest.

The breeder also mentioned that he was ready for socialization. Shouldn't he be started already?


Thanks for your input,

C

Listen to that little voice inside...  @ 10 weeks I want to see a pup who will make friends, who is confident and playful and though perhaps a lil cautious about a stranger, willing to make friends with just a little encouragement. 

I'd want to see Hips certified on both sides, as well as elbows and other genetic issues addressed. Pedigrees on both parents.  Do more research on what lines are being used for SAR, and who is producing dogs who have been successful in that. 

Good luck... the right pup is out there, take the time to find it.  oh, and YES socialization should have been started @ 5-6 weeks at the latest, at least as to home handling etc... I'd also wonder where mama is? 

If people can accept a puppy at 4 months having a Penn-Hip for breeding , a OFA Prelim over 9 months old should be acceptable for Breeding if there parents finaled OK with OFA. Especially when OFA says that Prelims over 4 months old are at least 89% reliable. Hello ?

A puppy that is interested in YOU , Focused on you when talking to it, even if its trying to bite every thing all over you, is a good working prospect. If the puppy outside is too independent, that might signal issues, however I hope you made sure the pup was not just trying to get away to do its duty.

Breeder's often know where the puppies are, I myself know when people that have gotten dogs from me have litters and I can recommend there puppies- talk about our bloodline and where it comes from etc. This person you visited may have picked up the puppy just for you to see, leaving the mother and father at the home where they live. If it bothers you, ask to see them. I would want to see the parents, and feel comfortable around them- make sure they are not nutty etc. A working puppy might be the LAST of the litter because 90% of buyers want a CALM easy going puppy to raise with there children, or are older and don't need the extra energy of a "REAL" working dog. A good Excellent breeder places puppies appropriately by temperament.

Whisper

PM me and I will give you a link to a very good puppy evauluation test.  If you are still looking for a great pup,I have pups due sired by Aceofnike van het bleekhof.  You can see his breeding and accomplishments on this web-site.Both parents hip and elbows done of course. And I give great discounts for law enforcement,sar,disabled service assistance.  Good luck,shop around and keep doing your research.

clc29

I have a female that when we went to see her at 6 weeks she was extreamly bitty, I was never able to cuddle with her until she was well passed a year old.  She was the best choice I could have made.  She was interested in the rag that we brought to play with her.  She was very confident at 6 weeks, and still is.  I know that this is not something that everyone is looking for, but she has excelled at everything we have done with her.  She is now 21 months old and she has more energy than I know what to do with sometimes but it all comes out in her training.  She passed her BH this past September and we are now working on her Schh1, we are hoping to get it in the spring.

I do have to say I agree with windwalker18 that if something is telling you that something is wrong, then I would keep looking

Good luck in your search.
Kathy. 

Hi, you should listen to your doubts about this puppy. He may turn out to be a great working / sport, but not the best SAR dog. Dogs that I do SAR with need to be highly socialized as young puppies, they need to have good health. If the dam isn't certified then look else where for a puppy.

Many wl puppies are very mouthy, which do want to see. But if you pick up the puppy start sweet talking & petting him / her I look to see a puppy that will get very excited, start kissing me, & wags tail. A SAR puppy should be more openly social, if not you'll have to address this later on in training.
 
Jiggle your keys & then throw them down. Look for a puppy that investigates the keys at least, better if they pick them up.

Get the puppy engaged in a toy then hide in under under your foot / hand, look for the puppy that doesn't give up trying to get the toy from under your foot. If the puppy is quick to give up the find now for a toy, they will give up on you later on when looking for a lost person.

See if you can lure the puppy on a small obstacle / couple stairs with toy / food / praise. Even if the puppy can't physically do it yet, should at least try. If the puppy just sits their looking at you, try again. If he or she fails to attempt again then move on to another puppy.

Look for a puppy that actively retrieves a toy, & bites a small wash cloth once stimulated by them.

Best bet is too contact SAR group members with GSD's, & use their breeders.

Good luck

 I am a little leery of anyone who has to call people that they heard were looking for a pup to try to sell their dogs. Just being honest here....I don't really have to do much in the way of advertising to sell my pups, and I wouldn't even think of calling someone to try to sell a pup. I'm not saying there is anything wrong w/this pup; there could be a very logical explanation for all of it- no parents, last pup, etc. The fact that more than one thing made you uneasy though should be enough to walk away. 

My pups are like piranhas, but they are also wagging and licking and jumping all over you. It can be a tad overwhelming, lol. The biting is normal, and can be worked with. For what you want to do with the dog, the extreme independence or disinterest is not desirable, IMO. The pup I have certified was a very friendly, social, outgoing, environmentally confident pup and wants to work for her handler. 

too many red flags - run away

 Hi Everyone,

Thanks Guys for your input.

Even though he is the first puppy I have looked at, my first impression of this little guy was that he would make a great sport or working dog, but not so much a SAR dog.

The breeder did have a logical explanation as to why he was the only pup there, but that did not help me. The sire is owned by someone else and the dam is in training. Both are out of state, so I could not go see them. The breeder did seem very knowledgeable about working dogs.

I expected a puppy temperament more like Jenn describes, a little piranha like, but also wiggly / waggly and slurppy .

I also feel like a SAR dog needs to be  friendly and social yet confident and independent enough to range out from the handler.

All of the dogs on my team are always so happy to see everyone and seem to truly enjoy the job when working. 

Some one suggested that I contact a local SAR team that uses GSD's. Unfortunately, we do not have any here. I would appreciate it if you guys could suggest some contacts in regards to SAR GSD breeders. 

Also, thanks for the pm's. I have seen the Eurosport puppy Tia and while I really like her parents and feel like the Mravik's breed some great dogs, she is just out of my price range.

Thanks Again. I look forward to hearing from you.
C