small dog and small dog owner behavoir

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by lolabelle on 18 November 2010 - 11:11

I live some of the time in the city with my Geman Shepherd and unfortunately our path to the park is an ambush of small dogs (of all breeds but mainly terriers) owned by people whose attitude is - its a small dog and therefore need not have any manners. As a result my dog, Lola, who is perfectly fine with other dogs has become a hyped up killing machine when she comes across any of these unpleasant dogs. Of course as a German Shepherd it is Immediately her fault.
She is a big strong dog and hard to hold (though I now succeed with the help of a wonderful strong harness) - these people with their rats on leads don't seem to worry about this and it makes me so cross.
She is fine off the lead - and in fact spends a lot of time walking quite happily with small dogs.
Firstly - any advice (other than assassinating both small dog and owner) and secondly - anyone else with similar situation?
I found a really good article about this - the link is below - which I feel should be compulsory reading for any small dog owner.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/smalltoydogs.htm

by Doppelganger on 18 November 2010 - 11:11

If by your own admission she has become a hyped up killing machine why are you taking her out where there are people with small dogs? It is surely even more important that she is under complete control and well behaved. I have small dogs as well as GSD and if taking the GSD out and there are other small dogs about the GSD has to lie down and wait till they have passed, even though I know he is fine with small dogs but because of his breed I don't want to even give them the chance to say he 'attacked' their dog.

by lolabelle on 18 November 2010 - 12:11

Sorry my sense of humour - obviously she is not a killing machine - she is actually a very sweet non dominant female - but she is very wound up by these dogs. Of course I make her sit and wait, I distract her - I do what I can to prevent her reacting but there are times when I am not given any warning - dog comes round corner or I simply do not see them, or I have her sitting or lying down - and still these small dog owners allow their dogs their aggressive behavoir.
I am not taking her out where there are people with small dogs - I am walking from my house down the road to the park. In the park she is off the lead as are all the dogs - and there is no problem.
I feel that many owners of small dogs (and obviously it does not go for all owners of small dogs) do not feel that they need to control their dogs in their attitude to large dogs, (a rampaging Jack Russell would not have the same effects as that of a GSD or Rottweiler behaving in the same way) however my point (and the point of the article I sent a link to ) is that the dogs don't see it that way - they just see another aggressive dog. As an owner of small and large dogs I am sure that you are able to see both sides and I am sure that you would not allow your small dogs to behave in any way that is different to the behavoir of your GSD - however not everyone is like you.

by JakodaCD OA on 18 November 2010 - 12:11

my sister had labs all her life, then defected to papillons about 5 years ago. My gsd's have always gotten along well with her "ankle biters", HOWEVER, SHE has what I call "small dog syndrome"...thinks they can do no wrong, doesn't discipline them 'much', they are barky big mouths. Tho I have to give her credit, the older one has some of the highest titles in agility,

She babies the heck out of them. They tend to tease my gsd, who in turn likes to give chase, stops just short of physically jumping them/pinning them, and races off, with the papillons after her, my sister has a coronary thinking my big gsd is gonna squish her little doggies...I just laugh, payback is a bitch:)

There isn't much I can offer as a solution, small dog owners can sometimes be in a world of their own, and you can bet if one of my sister's paps bit someone it would be no big deal, but if my GSD bit the same way, it would be big time trouble

by Penny on 18 November 2010 - 12:11

doppeldanger is right about why take her in "their path" if she is misbehaving. Go back to basics, and get her focus on you and then get the odd small dog whom you perhaps know to pass, whilst you "up the anti" with a treat or a toy" tempting her every bit of the way to attend to you 100% then as soon as the small dog has passed, then offer the reward and if its a toy even better rag and rag with her, then "out" her and start your walk again until you see a little dog coming, then go for a little dog misbehaving and coming your way - but really, dont over pressurise her by taking her into the path and places where these other people will just lure her to misbehave and you are then reinforcing her bad behaviour ever time it happens. she will necome conditioned to do it even if the small dog doesnt misbehave eventually.
I have small dogs, as well as GSD`s ands my GSD`s have to accept that the small dog may be a pain at times and dash and scurry and be a general nuisance to them (including cleaning out their ears when they feel the need) and they - on the other hand must put up with all of that, becauee the difference in size and ability makes that rule necessary.
Good luck - but go back to basics, dont over face her. Mo.

by lolabelle on 18 November 2010 - 13:11

I do appreciate your comments - and will continue to do all the things suggested - however I must say that I simply cannot change the street I walk down to the park - there is one road and that is the one I take - if I see one of these owners and their dogs coming I cross the road - and hopefully all is well - my point is I feel I am doing all I can but I am not assisted by the owners with the aptly names 'small dog syndrome'. and I do feel that a GSD (or indeed any large dog) and small dogs they live with (or hang out with) is a totally different situation - how many dogs have you known that happily live with cats - but when they come across one in the street its a whole different story. My dog is absolutely fine with all my friends small dogs she knows - she is even fine with small dogs she passes in the street that she has had no encounter with (although she certainly gives them the eye) - it's just these few 'public enemy number 1 dogs'.
Anyway I just wanted a bit of a rant as I had just experienced a situation (all dogs on leads) with 2 local Jack Russells who as usual , as soon as they saw Lola went into hysterical yapping - and when Lola barked back, their walker was extremely rude accusing me of having a dangerous dog (they were yards from each other). Its the moral high ground that annoys me.

by LadyFrost on 18 November 2010 - 14:11

lolabelle...i am with you 100% on this subject...and there is a reason for that...I used to walk 2 of my dogs in my neighborhood everyday and at the end of the neighborhood kids would play and have a small shaggy looking mutt with them, it was always off leash, ran through everyone’s back yards, chased cats, etc...so when I walked I always avoided that area....just to make sure there is no confrontation, etc..
Just to clarify my dogs are great with all dogs on the street w/o exception...well..one day i was walking towards nearby school and there is only one way out of my neighborhood and kids (5-6 teenagers 15-18 years old along with 1 adult ) with this mutt decided to play on main street which led out, can’t remember what they were doing, well this mutt started barking and running around in circles, and trying to nip my dogs once it finally nipped my male dog and he jerked after this mutt so hard he pulled me down and I landed on my knees broke my finger because it was folded holding the leash and I landed on my hands, as I managed to get up my hand was bleeding my knew was scraped and also bleeding my female dog sensing my mood change dropped down my male dog was crouching I was shouting “down” and the f*** mutt was still at it circling and barking..i screamed at kids “get your f** dog!” they said it’s not our dog…so since no one was retrieving the mutt I let go of the leashed and said “go get it” my dogs chased it through back yards and I heard some yelping..by the time I checked my finger, pulled off few broken nails…its been 2-3 min. I whistled and got my dogs to come back…kids and adult just stood there starring once I turned around and slowly walked home I heard one of the kids say “man, she was really mad”… I had seen the mutt around since then but it is no longer approaching me or my dogs and my dogs absolutely now hate that dog and will bark at it and try to go after it…
So, even though I may have not acted appropriately in the heat of the moment…I felt that if they were not going to do anything about it, why should I???...so from that day on I will not go out of my way for someone else’s uncontrollable small dog, I have just as much right to walk on public street as anyone else and if their dog is off leash then their dog is not under control and I am not responsible for their stupidity and results of their negligence.

by RLHAR on 18 November 2010 - 15:11

Small spoiled dogs are in more danger from me than from my GSDs. I drop punt to kill.

by ShadyLady on 18 November 2010 - 17:11

LadyFrost, great story. Sorry it happened to you, and I agree.

The bottom line on it all, is you have to be aware of what is going on around you and act accordingly. People suck in general when managing their dogs in public. You can go out of your way as much as possible, but really if you want to mix it up with the small dog owners, while walking your big dog, it wouldn't be hard to make a point with them.

Even at dog shows. A small dog, I think it was a Schipperke was shaken and killed by two Irish Wolfhounds at a dog show.

Everyone wanted to make the IW the villains. What about the responsibility of Schipperke handler/owner? No, of course no discussion about that, it was all about how the IW were allowed to keep their points as well as being allowed on the show grounds the next day.

by cphudson on 18 November 2010 - 18:11

I feel for you guys, I was once in the same position too. I routinely took my GSD & Mastiff on walks to the dog park. On the way I had to cross a mine field of little yappy dogs. All of which were never kept on leash or contain with in their yards. Myself, & my dogs were all routinely bitten my these small dogs. My dogs were very well trained & socialized with no dog aggression.

I got so fed up one day I brought one of those anti dog barkers with me that emits a loud noise. It actually worked to shut up the little yappers! I also started carrying Halt spray for any loose dogs. Which worked but still wanted to avoid the whole conflict all together. So since my dogs loved carrying toys around, I went out & purchased those realistic toy Yorke terrier stuff animals in a toy store. I then added a little ketchup stains to them & they were ready to go. I had my dogs carry the ketchup stain stuff toys to the park. Well on the way most of the yappy dog owners ran out of the home horrified, graping their dogs.
I told them I got sick of dealing with all these little dogs off leash biting my dogs! O the little dog owners were all shocked & scared some said some rude things. One must of called animal control, they showed up at the dog park, cracked up laughing at the toys. My dogs have a right to carry toys!
But after that, I never saw another small yappy dog harass us again. If they were outside now contain & supervised by their owners, they always went inside or the other way when we approached.

If it took them to become scared & think my dogs were carrying around real little hurt dogs so be it. I had the majority + authorities that knew otherwise. My dogs & I then had nice relaxing walks to the park every day the way it should be.

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