New Idea in training - Page 1

Today while working on the hold and bark with my female I came up on a "new idea".  My female liked to try and get a dirty bite and while trying to figure out how to stop it I came up with an answer.  When I sent her again and she tried to get dirty I just told her NO and since she is marker trained it worked.  She was like o you mean for me to sit and bark and then when the helper moves to bite you could literally see the light bulb going off over her head.  Dog training is simple but never easy.

Glad that worked out for you.  A negative marker or negative reinforcement is not a new concept.  The best thing is to never let the dog get dirty when teaching the hold and bark.  The first time the dog self rewards with a dirty bite bite in the hold and bark an association is made and it is never forgotten.  From that moment on you are dealing with a dog that has learned it can get a "dirty bite" and self reward.  Then the training is to always prevent and avoid that form happening again.  It is much easier if you always have a means of correction in place; i.e. long line, third party, e collar etc. 

I'm glad the negative marker worked for your dog, it won't work for really high drive dogs.  My advice would be to take a step back in the training and ensure the dog is clean with out any need for verbal cues.  The dog has to do it on it's own in a trial and you won't approach the dog for about 30 seconds. 

JMO FWIW,

Jim

She was on a long line with a prong and is fairly high drive but I have been using markers in obedience and thought why not in bite work you could  see her actually think I messed up.  The best thing about her is she tries very hard to please me and works with me and not for herself. I just wish all of my dogs would work like that but I guess that is why we spend so much time training them.  Yes markers are not new just thought it could serve as a reminder that we tell the dog when they are right so tell them when they are wrong.  I just hardly ever see anyone doing this in bitework.

I use negative markers in my training all the time.  When clicker training and teaching new behaviors I use the word "wrong."  I also use "fooey" and "NO," each has a slightly different meaning and is used at different times.  One of the biggest mistakes I see people making when teaching the hold and bark is allowing the dog to ever get dirty.  It is a very simple exercise if taught properly and the dog is never allowed to get a dirty bite.  Why not pair the negative marker with the correction from the long line when the dog "thinks" about getting dirty and before it actually reaches the decoy or the sleeve?  The timing is really the critical component, IMO.

Jim

For a really high-drive dog, a strong bond can be effective, that it pays good mind to the handler's cues while it's "in drive".

For a really high-drive dog, a strong bond can be effective, that it pays good mind to the handler's cues while it's "in drive".

as Slam said....don't ever let the dog touch....the handler won't be anywhere near the dog when the cheap shot occurs...and it will if you think you're fast enough to stop a cheap shot..verbally...consistently....nope:-)

Writing and telling about something is 2 different things at least it is for me.  I did have my dog on a line and prong collar.  We was actually working on squaring her up on the helper when it looked like she was going to get dirty so I told her no and corrected her.  The next time I sent her she squared up and didn't even look like she was going to get dirty so I marked(told her yes) the behavior and then she got the bite.  The yes also cues my helper to give her the bite.  As I said before the best part about this dog is she is trying hard to figure out what she needs to do and when she does she has it.  I agree timing is everything in training but I also know that no one is good enough or perfect enough to keep their dog from ever making a mistake hence the need for training and proofing.  I also know that this may or may not work for my male or any other dog. But it is working for me and my female.  And when she does get it right and I send her without a line you can believe that she will have an e-collar on to correct her if needed.

David