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by Sequoias Family on 05 October 2010 - 22:10
I found your forum while searching the internet for resolution for concerns re. our newly acquired female GSD puppy.
My son is 14-1/2 y.o., and at that age I acquired my first dog and companion for life. (Mine was a norwegian elkhound in about 1972 or 1973). He wanted a puppy very badly; a confidant, companion, non-judgemental protector to be his buddy; all of the reaosns I still believe every teen (at least those caring enough and responsible enough) should have a canine friend.
My son's puppy came to us at about age 11 weeks, being born on July 15, 2010, and brought to our home three days ago.
All of the dogs at the breeder's home looked lean. Reportedly, the mother is a relatively good eater, but the father (also owned by the same couple) is two years old, and finisky as well.
Both mother and father are reportedly of German import lineage, though the mother is the only fully registered dog in the mating pair. The mother's reportedly been cleared by a qualified vet for breeding, hips, etc. Both were apparently well-socialized during our visit, and the breeder has raised GSD for ~17 years.
With two days+ under our belts with this dog, and having been a dog-oriented person all of my life (now over 50 years), I've been growing more and more worried about Sequoia ('Quoia' for short, also because of the hard consonant sound in the beginning of her name, in order to grab her attention). Her lack of appeatite, long, tall, lanky, lean stature may exagerate her leanness, but I worry that my son's first dog companion experience is one of up-hill challenges, with a potential for looming catastrophe.
This morning I hand-fed Quoia some premium lamb meal and rice puppy formula (ommitting the brand, unless others want to know, and not sure if it would violate forum rules to post it), mixed with unsalted roast beef bits, warm water, and a small amount of the probiotic adult lamb meal and rice food we feed our ten-year-old eccentric malamute.
Quoia was reportedly a finicky eater at the breeder's as well. Her preference was to steal the adult dog food (very similar to my malamute's food, which she also steals in small amounts), leaving me chuckling a time or two about the similarities in humans and dogs, and the desire to have something of someone else's, the grass being greener on the other side, or the standard pursuit of the 'forbidden fruit.' (Likewise, the m'loot likes to steal the puppy's chow as well; I suspect they both think they're pulling something over on the other.)
I took the pup to the vet's yesterday, day two at our home, mostly for a well-puppy check-up, and to follow through on any of her remaining medical needs.
The vet didn't seem overly concerned, though he gave us a single dose of Drontan, and some stool stiffener, as well as the information about GSD being notorious picky eaters..
I have -not- given Quoia the stool stiffener, as I;'d be more concerned about causing constipation, and her stools (of which I took a sample to the vet) weren't truly soft, per se', but rather, had 'some' notable mucous in them. And, like a puppy, many non-edibles seem suddenly edible... Also apparent in the stool sample..
I've appreciated -all- of the information I've found in the forum ths far, but the 8-week-old puppy in a similar thread, frankly, looks fat in contrast to our pup. Granted, ours is of a standard coat, no long hair, and there's a 3-week difference in age, but ours is L-E-A-N in comparison.
Any additional advice beyond that already given would be greatly appreciated!
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Addendum; Quoia ate a mixture of high-quality puppy formulas, with a smattering of adult lamb meal and rice with probiotics, topped off with a splash of 2% milk, bits of roasted, unspiced&
by dogshome9 on 06 October 2010 - 04:10
Could you tell us what your puppy weighs?
I would love to see a photo of your puppy, do you have 1 that you could post so that we could then assess just how lean he is?
Do you know if he was on a on a regular worming program before you bought him?
As you have only just acquired Quoia he may be just settling in to his new home and many puppies do need a few days before they eat properly.
Are you offering him the same food as his breeder was feeding? It is a good idea to continue with the same diet.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 06 October 2010 - 05:10
I had a dog that the first 6 years of his life he did not eat what I thought was nearly enough food. However he could run all day long, and other than being retardedly skinny, was shiny and active. After 6 somewhere near 7, I actually had to watch what he was eating, as he got chunky.
by Sequoias Family on 06 October 2010 - 08:10
On the way home with her, I purchased a bag of a very good lamb meal and rice puppy formula, as well as her third vaccine set (the first and second were administered by the owner/breeder, with the second vaccination having been given approximately 6 days prior to today, or 3 days before we acquired her.
I also purchased a broad-spectrum wormer that carried a warning not to administer it to puppies under 12-weeks-old, as it may cause some degree of harm to them. I initially decided to wait at least a couple of weeks before giving her this, though her first worming (and only worming) at the breeder's home occurred at about 6 weeks of age. My best guess is that it was the more narrow spectrum wormer in liquid form, commonly sold over the counter at good feed stores as effective and puppy-safe.
As I wrote in an earlier post, that medicine became a moot issue, due to the vet giving her a different wormer yesterday.
The vet stated she weighs 21.2 lbs. but I very seriously question that figure. My best estimate right now, without waking someone and putting her on a digital bathroom scale in someone's arms (as it's currently quite late here), is that she weighs approximately 16-17 lbs., and I'm a fairly good judge of weight usually.
My son (Quoia's owner) is sleeping at the moment, and he tends to be more oriented toward up-loading pictures, as he's the more motivated photographer these days. I'll ask him to up-load pics as soon as possible.
The progress made at noon was not repeated at dinner time.
My guess is that Quoia ate approximately 1/4-1/3 cup of her breakfast, perhaps 2/3 of a cup or so of her lunch, and barely 1/4, perhaps less, of her dinner, which was quite similar to her lunch.
The majority of her hair is not silky, but rather what I'd refer to as the texture of a Q-tip or cotton swab. Her legs are quite long and likely appropriately skinny for their length, but at her last ribs, where her mid-section indents toward her spine, the change in 'roundness' is notable, thinning down quite a lot toward her 'waist.
Her demeanor is typically fairly up-beat and playful about 1/4 to 1/3 of the day, and about 1/2 of the day or so, she's very gentle, notably observant, watching everything around her, and seemingly very bright. The rest of the time she's lounging or sleeping.
She bonded with my son in a very short period of time, frequently following him every place he goes inside the house, and playing catch outdoors for brief periods of time. Their outdoor play time is probably more broken up as a result of my son's schedule and obligations, as I think she'd play for longer periods with him if he were to offer more time.
She's definitely skinny, at least in my opinion, and I acknowledge that there's a good chance that some of this is due to adjusting to a new home, but, as mentioned earlier, the breeder had said that she's a -very- picky eater.
As an additional note, Quoia had previously gone home with another owner and spent two nights with them before a family emergency occurred in another area of the country, and they returned Quoia to the breeder.
The breeder had reportedly offerred to board Quoia for her while the previous buyer was outside, but the previous buyer reportedly refused, simply requesting a refund.
by Doppelganger on 06 October 2010 - 09:10
Give her two meat/kibble meals and two porridgy/milky meals (do you have Weetabix in the States?), and don't allow her to eat the Malamute's food or else you will not know what she has eaten. Don't feed the same food if she has not eaten it (I mean give her a fresh portion). Certainly don't hand feed, you will be setting yourself up for a lifetime of grief. Definitely worm her with a good quality wormer, she should have been done every two weeks till 8 weeks, then at 12 weeks and then at six months. Provided she is eating something and pooing and playing you should not worry or make a big thing of it. Only if she is not playing and looks as though she just wants to lie around would I worry. Did you see the father? If not he may not even be purebred, and she might never be the build of a purebred puppy.
by Sequoias Family on 06 October 2010 - 15:10
Thanks for all the input, everyone.
Yes, I saw both the mother and the father at the breeder's, and they are both pure-breds. The breeding was unplanned, and reportedly occurred one time only, when they'd been gone on a trip, thought the male was penned, let the female out in the yard, and were too late to separate the two.
This morning my wife stood on the scale with Quoia and she does, apparently, weigh (according to our digital bathroom scale) 20.6 lbs. Close enough to the vet's 21.2 lbs., I guess.
She ate 1/4 cup of a small amount of food this A.M., but when she eats the malamute's lamb meal and rice chow, separately from her own mix, she typically eats only a few nuggets before losing her interest with that as well.
She was started on Eagle Pack/Eagle Pak puppy formula at the breeder's, and we have her on Diamond lamb meal and rice puppy formula This morning she received that, with the small pieces of roasted beef chuck roast (older freezer meat; not freezer burned, and it's been kept at -10 to -20 f. for the last couple of years or so). a tablespoon of yogurt, a few nuggets of the older puppy chow, and a few nuggets of the adult probiotic lamb meal and rice chow (Iams), splashed with warm water. More or less the same as yesterday, minus the scant amount of milk, and with the tablespoon of yogurt added instead, per another post in another thread here.
We're not hand-feeding her as much since yesterday, instead putting her food bowl on the floor in 'her area' in the back entryway, bringing her attention to it by showing her the bowl and stirring it with a finger, and then leaving her there undistracted, with the door typically closed.
She's very playful this A.M. (and most mornings). ...( causing our 10-yr.-old malamute to act like he's 1 yr. old again, until the pace frustrates him.)
She both pooped and peed this morning, and I'm told the stool was of medium firmness; no mucous or diarrhea apparent, but not too firm or approaching constipation either.
Yes, apparently she only received the one worming at 6 weeks of age, before we took her in the other day, and procured the Drontan.
I guess that in my past experience, puppies are supposed to be interested in eating good chow, and 1/4-cup of food at a sitting is just too little. But the thin appearance of her mid-section adds to the worry I feel about her.
Some of the issue may be her heightened degree of alertness and the accompanying distractibility. Perhaps that will pass too, as she becomes more accustomed to being here at our home.
by Sequoias Family on 06 October 2010 - 15:10
by beetree on 06 October 2010 - 17:10
by Dawn G. Bonome on 06 October 2010 - 18:10
Maybe it is the food that she smells something that she does not like. Rancid or something not right.
JMO but it sounds like it could be stress related. New home /surroundings.
Eagle Pak is a good food. I think that you are adding too much to her food and her system cannot tolerate that much so soon. AND... I would not give her milk.
by shostring on 06 October 2010 - 18:10
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