Conformation dog with P1 missing? - Page 1

Hi Everyone, I want to know if any of you have experience with this. I have a young dog that is missing his p1 tooth. How does this affect the show rating? And also the breed survery?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jennifer

  I am pretty sure that In the SV system the dog with missing P1, assuming no other teeth are missing, can get Kkl 2, the maximum this dog can achieve is SG, not V.  In shows up to a year old the missing tooth will probably not affect the placing, but after this the dog will almost certainly be put back, and after 2 years will of course be behind all the excellent dogs.  This dog can be bred though, and the chances are that most of the puppies will not inherit this minor fault.

Your dog cannot go VA, he can most likely V, depends on the dog and the judge. He can be breed surveyed KKl2. Here's the information from the USA website, see para 7.2.4.

http://germanshepherddog.com/regulations/breed_survey_regulations.htm

 hello ... the dog is missing a tooth .. why in the world would one consider ever showing or  breed surveying the dog .. think perhaps of breding it ?? you must realize .. that is a genetic defect !! who cares what the SV , AKC or any other organization states ! their off balanced rules and regulations have done enough to ensure the demise of many a breed let alone the GSD . i suppose everyone has their personal interests .. IMO a canine should amoung other things have a CORRECT full set of teeth [ without existing under shot jaw ,scissor bite ,  crowded / teeth squished together ]  !!

Thanks everyone for your input.  ALPHAPUP: Because if you are doing schutzhund why wouldn't you show your dog? because of a missing tooth?? Thats ridiculous. He can still bite.

He is a working dog, that imo could have a V rating in conformation, I just wanted to know if he would not get this rating because of this fault?? Or maybe be placed last V because of this.

Thanks.
Jennifer

 I have a female who is missing 1 incisor.  She has KKl2 but I was told that she could not be more than SG, which is why I have never shown her except once as a puppy.  She is a dog I bred, I kept her back as she was so beautiful with really good temperament too.  Several experienced people advised me to keep her as the fault is very minor and permitted for breeding under the SV system.  Unlike dysplasia, or even and undershot or overshot jaw, the one tiny missing tooth does not affect her quality of life at all.  Of a total of 15 puppies she has had, two of them inherited the same problem, and were sold as pets ( the owners knew and did not mind). The others all have complete dentition.  She has always had very good puppies, I see no real reason to eliminate her from my breeding program as she produces far more positive qualities than negative.

 oso ... that is the point that infuriates me !!!  starting  with the SV .. no one wants to be upright.. you yourself admit it was passed on to progeny ,, even though sold as pets .. WHY breed the dog..???...  this is the substance as to why today .. in the GSD there exists: congenital heart deficiencies , pancreatic enzymatic insufficiency , allerigies ,  auto immune disease , Soft or  ears non erect !! [ especially the ear situation!!] , lack of minimum stress levels etc etc etc ... Many ... i mean many .. have full knowledge these exist in the lines [ whether a small or large genetic defect] and .. they still breed and continue passing on the gene. yaaaaa the dog can live a normal life .. so what ..  many are a bunch of hypocrites in my book .. and many are SV members .. i hear the fallacy " we breed for the betterment of the breed" !! you are all full of *** . 

 I do understand what you are saying Alphapup, but I also think there is a huge difference between the faults you mention that do affect quality of life and overall health (except perhaps the ears question, but that does affect the typical appearance of a GSD that we are looking for), and a very minor non-debilitating fault that is only passed on to a small minority of offspring whose lives are not negatively affected in any way.  Of course I only kept this female because she was otherwise of very good quality and had a lot of positive characteristics to pass on,  If she had been average I would not have considered her for breeding.  In an ideal world we would use only the totally perfect examples for breeding but in real life you have to weigh up the good and bad points, and the bad ones try to correct as far as possible by appropriate selection of breeding partners.  I would far rather breed from this female than one with perfect dentition but a weak temperament, for example (much more hereditary and a much more serious fault).  Eliminate all the dogs with minor faults and we will reduce the gene pool still further and in the end increase the risks of harmful inherited conditions.

How old is the dog you are asking about?  I had a pup that appeared to be missing P1 although the spot on the gumline where the tooth should be appeared lighter in color and if you ran a finger over it, it felt like there was a tooth under there.  The tooth was actually there, but didn't pop through the gumline until the dog was 8 months old, and all of the other teeth had come in normally.