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by Holleiagsd on 18 August 2010 - 13:08
I have in my hand an email that is being sent around to other breeders, It names affixes that have used the Rockforce Stud, which includes my lines. I wont post it on here because it names other breeders and that is unfair.
This email has not been sent to myself or Rockforce although it is about us. It has been banded about behind our backs, I assume out of spite.
If anybreeder associated with Rockforce or myself would like a copy I am more than happy to forward it on. The email I assume is supposed to have some form of impact, but it just shows the sender how pathetic and childish they really are.
Most of my results have been omitted for some strange reason! The list has been made to look far worse than it actually is, with lots of low scoring dogs omitted. I have my suspicions as to who started it!
My progeny Hip & Elbow scores are as follows:
HOLLIE'S PROGENY (Beseeka Hollywood GIrl) BVA 11 5/6
Leia (Holleia She's A Cracker) BVA 12 (5/7)
George (Sagitarrian Dark Warrior) BVA 24 (14/10)
Holleia Cinderella's Dream BVA 11 (7/4)
LEIA'S PROGENY
Holleia Breeze BVA 9 (5/4)
Tara (Holleia She's A Daydreamer) BVA 8 (3/5)
Holleia Dancing Prince BVA 13 (6/7) Elbows 0/0
HOLLEIA CINDERELLA'S DREAM PROGENY
Zeusnella Aphrodite sunset BVA 11 (6/5)
This email has not been sent to myself or Rockforce although it is about us. It has been banded about behind our backs, I assume out of spite.
If anybreeder associated with Rockforce or myself would like a copy I am more than happy to forward it on. The email I assume is supposed to have some form of impact, but it just shows the sender how pathetic and childish they really are.
Most of my results have been omitted for some strange reason! The list has been made to look far worse than it actually is, with lots of low scoring dogs omitted. I have my suspicions as to who started it!
My progeny Hip & Elbow scores are as follows:
HOLLIE'S PROGENY (Beseeka Hollywood GIrl) BVA 11 5/6
Leia (Holleia She's A Cracker) BVA 12 (5/7)
George (Sagitarrian Dark Warrior) BVA 24 (14/10)
Holleia Cinderella's Dream BVA 11 (7/4)
LEIA'S PROGENY
Holleia Breeze BVA 9 (5/4)
Tara (Holleia She's A Daydreamer) BVA 8 (3/5)
Holleia Dancing Prince BVA 13 (6/7) Elbows 0/0
HOLLEIA CINDERELLA'S DREAM PROGENY
Zeusnella Aphrodite sunset BVA 11 (6/5)
by Holleiagsd on 18 August 2010 - 13:08
To the person that compiled the list:
Have you bred the perfect dog? If so we would all like to use it!
Have you looked at yourself? you are a coward for banding this about behind our backs. At least have the decency to send it to our faces!
Shame on you!!
Have you bred the perfect dog? If so we would all like to use it!
Have you looked at yourself? you are a coward for banding this about behind our backs. At least have the decency to send it to our faces!
Shame on you!!
by jayjames on 18 August 2010 - 14:08
One doesn't have to have a university degree to know who compiled the list, nor one to know who is sending it.
Despicable behaviour., but not surprising.
Despicable behaviour., but not surprising.
by Abby Normal on 18 August 2010 - 14:08
Claire
I feel for both you and Jeanette as you are clearly being targetted, and it would seem pretty obvious where this is originating.
On the other threads I refrained from saying anything when HD was lumped into the 'defects' mentioned, although each time I thought how little understanding of HD those making these accusations actually have of HD. I have a dog with HD, with a score of 48. Do I blame my breeder - No, certainly not, BECAUSE the dogs they bred from had very good hip scores,(as did her sister who was scored was a 3-4), and so did all the dogs behind the pedigree. It was simply unlucky. It's a problem that we really don't yet know how to solve within the breed.
Had they knowingly bred from unscored dogs, or bred from dogs with a score over the BMS, that would be different, I would feel I had cause to blame them, as I would consider that unacceptable.
HD is polygenic, and is capricious. Great dogs, with excellent hip scores and excellent scores all the way back in the pedigree will and do produce some puppies with HD. You have only to look at the current BVA list in circulation to see 3 or 4 littermates scored with good and bad results, including top German stock. Since it is rare for whole litters to be scored, it is almost impossible to say what percentage of high scores are actually being produced. I read about an Austrian study some years ago, where it was estimated to be as high as 25% on average. It makes no sense to withdraw every dog that has produced high scores in some progeny from a breeding programme. There would be no GSD left to breed in no time at all.
I feel for both you and Jeanette as you are clearly being targetted, and it would seem pretty obvious where this is originating.
On the other threads I refrained from saying anything when HD was lumped into the 'defects' mentioned, although each time I thought how little understanding of HD those making these accusations actually have of HD. I have a dog with HD, with a score of 48. Do I blame my breeder - No, certainly not, BECAUSE the dogs they bred from had very good hip scores,(as did her sister who was scored was a 3-4), and so did all the dogs behind the pedigree. It was simply unlucky. It's a problem that we really don't yet know how to solve within the breed.
Had they knowingly bred from unscored dogs, or bred from dogs with a score over the BMS, that would be different, I would feel I had cause to blame them, as I would consider that unacceptable.
HD is polygenic, and is capricious. Great dogs, with excellent hip scores and excellent scores all the way back in the pedigree will and do produce some puppies with HD. You have only to look at the current BVA list in circulation to see 3 or 4 littermates scored with good and bad results, including top German stock. Since it is rare for whole litters to be scored, it is almost impossible to say what percentage of high scores are actually being produced. I read about an Austrian study some years ago, where it was estimated to be as high as 25% on average. It makes no sense to withdraw every dog that has produced high scores in some progeny from a breeding programme. There would be no GSD left to breed in no time at all.
by Jeanette Newton on 18 August 2010 - 15:08
by Jeanette Newton on 18 August 2010 - 15:08
This from an old League Handbook, but i would like to show whoever is circulating the email about my dogs progeny (although has not had the guts to send it to me personally) you will see that from the above list there are many dogs that have sired progeny with high scores and, as Abby Normal quite rightly points out the mean average of hip scores are today around 25%.
I wish that you would come from behind your masks and fight fairly and not spend hours of your time trolling through The KC records to "prove points against my dogs".
If you have something to say about them, then let's all hear it.
Don't be sending silly little colored and highlighted emails, like silly school girls, to other breeders as this is pathetic.
None of my studs dogs to date (with any medical proof) have created progeny with Epilepsy, EPI, A/F or even Dwarfism.
Yes, my stud dogs have produced progeny with his hip scores and, like all other breeders, i am sorry if any dog that is afflicted, or in any pain due to it, but hip scores, as Abby Norma,l again points out is something that none of can control.
So grow up girls and come out and say what you have to say, because you are really making yourselves look extremely silly.
To all the breeders that have received one of these pathetic emails, then please contact me and i will tell you if your name/Affix is on their "Hit List".
by jayjames on 18 August 2010 - 15:08
by Abby Normal on 18 August 2010 - 14:08 Abby Normal
Claire
I feel for both you and Jeanette as you are clearly being targetted, and it would seem pretty obvious where this is originating.
On the other threads I refrained from saying anything when HD was lumped into the 'defects' mentioned, although each time I thought how little understanding of HD those making these accusations actually have of HD. I have a dog with HD, with a score of 48. Do I blame my breeder - No, certainly not, BECAUSE the dogs they bred from had very good hip scores,(as did her sister who was scored was a 3-4), and so did all the dogs behind the pedigree. It was simply unlucky. It's a problem that we really don't yet know how to solve within the breed.
For once I am in full agreement with you, me being in the same situation as you, but a slightly worse case scenario, as my dog has other health conditions (defects) also, which are almost certainly down to being hereditary. The dogs in her 5 gen pedigree all had low hip scores and the highest being just into double figures. I put her conditions down to a recessive gene, which is expressed only when two copies of the mutant gene are present, which may occur or never occur in litters of pups.
Both you and I have been *unlucky* but neither of us have gone down a neurotic path for 4 or 5 years wreaking a spiteful, hate campaign on endless forums against the breeders of our dogs. I really feel sorry for Jeanette and Claire having to put up with the lying accusations from the sad excuses of a human beings, namely Hopwood and her sidekick. This vendetta they have, must be eating away at them like a cancer.
May I add that the lines of my dog have no connection whatsoever to either Jeanettes or Claires dogs.
Claire
I feel for both you and Jeanette as you are clearly being targetted, and it would seem pretty obvious where this is originating.
On the other threads I refrained from saying anything when HD was lumped into the 'defects' mentioned, although each time I thought how little understanding of HD those making these accusations actually have of HD. I have a dog with HD, with a score of 48. Do I blame my breeder - No, certainly not, BECAUSE the dogs they bred from had very good hip scores,(as did her sister who was scored was a 3-4), and so did all the dogs behind the pedigree. It was simply unlucky. It's a problem that we really don't yet know how to solve within the breed.
For once I am in full agreement with you, me being in the same situation as you, but a slightly worse case scenario, as my dog has other health conditions (defects) also, which are almost certainly down to being hereditary. The dogs in her 5 gen pedigree all had low hip scores and the highest being just into double figures. I put her conditions down to a recessive gene, which is expressed only when two copies of the mutant gene are present, which may occur or never occur in litters of pups.
Both you and I have been *unlucky* but neither of us have gone down a neurotic path for 4 or 5 years wreaking a spiteful, hate campaign on endless forums against the breeders of our dogs. I really feel sorry for Jeanette and Claire having to put up with the lying accusations from the sad excuses of a human beings, namely Hopwood and her sidekick. This vendetta they have, must be eating away at them like a cancer.
May I add that the lines of my dog have no connection whatsoever to either Jeanettes or Claires dogs.
by Merryvale on 18 August 2010 - 16:08
Abbey &jayjames
I also have dogs with horrendous hip scores and I could have made the breeders life hell but whats the point....to work oneself into such a time consuming and hate filled existence that has obviously in Hopwoods case sent her into a permanent state of derangement is such a waste of ones life.
I for one have better things to do with both my time and my life.
Low hip scores of the parents do not give any guarantee that any or all puppies will have good hips.it helps but thats all.
I also have dogs with horrendous hip scores and I could have made the breeders life hell but whats the point....to work oneself into such a time consuming and hate filled existence that has obviously in Hopwoods case sent her into a permanent state of derangement is such a waste of ones life.
I for one have better things to do with both my time and my life.
Low hip scores of the parents do not give any guarantee that any or all puppies will have good hips.it helps but thats all.
by Jeanette Newton on 18 August 2010 - 16:08
To jayjames,
I have too have previously posted that i bought a puppy into enhance my breeding programme only to find that he has excellent hips, but he showed signs of a limp on his front left leg from being 5 months of age.
His left elbow is completely shot and my vet made rumblings that he may not reach 5 years of age.
He is a cracking boy, with a wicked sense of humour (A bit like jessiejames!!), but he cannot be used at stud.
I contacted the breeders and told them my news, they sympathized with me, but they didn't offer me any money back and/or a free puppy even though they knew that he was bought for stud work.
I would neither name the breeder or feel that i have been treated unjustly by them as it is the risk that i took when i bought him.
He will stay with me, as my "special pet" and i will treat him like my other boys as he is super and i enjoy him every day.
He is the dog that can make a joke out of anything and i can honestly feel blessed that i have the privilege of owning him.
What these silly girls want from me i do not know, but like you said i must be on their minds a lot, how sad!!!
by Merryvale on 18 August 2010 - 16:08
Hi Jeanette.
Bit off topic but I watched a vet program a couple of weeks ago that featured a lovely gsd bitch with severe ED in her left elbow and the vets did an elbow replacement on her with great success.
Think it was at Bristol where the series was filmed
Bit off topic but I watched a vet program a couple of weeks ago that featured a lovely gsd bitch with severe ED in her left elbow and the vets did an elbow replacement on her with great success.
Think it was at Bristol where the series was filmed
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