Full calm grips - indication of overall calmness? - Page 1

I'm pretty sure I understand the meaning of this phrase but can it be said that the calmness exhibited by a dog in this particular instance of stress i.e. manwork, will also be exhibited in other instances of stress e.g. tracking in chaotic/noisy urban environments, obediance in busy shopping malls etc?

AandA

full calm grips are also indication of extra preydrive , or also some insecure dogs feel save , hanging on to what they got
IMO it has nothing to do with courage , stability or stress thus also cannot be linked to behaviour  shown in shoppingmalls etc

"extra preydrive"?  What's that?

I guess he meant high prey drive. Prey drive above average. 
I believe that there is  part of the prey drive which involves how intensely the dog is holding on. You can see it on some pups. Thus it is inherited. You can lift them of the ground on a tug toy and sometimes it is even hard to open their mouth with hand. That is one of the important consideration when I am deciding what to hold back.
Here is a picture of pups from  Lary Naspo taken at Pohrnaicni straz ( Borderer patrol station ) Libejovice  in Southern part of Czech rep. Also dog which is not courageous will not hold on or will hold on but not calmly or may not want to let go. This however also could be result of improper training. Especially pushing the dog too fast into advanced levels of bite work before he/she is ready.

Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com 

I don't agree with a "prey-level" correlation to full calm grips.  This dog below had very full, hard, calm grips.  He was neither nervous or above above average in prey.  A pretty laid back, willing and confident dog.  His less than abundant preydrive and its effect on the obedience phase was my primary reason for retiring him.

"full calm grips are also indication of extra preydrive"

I don't agree with that statement... The dog I had with the most over-the-top prey drive had a tendency to be chewy on everything... Ball, jute, dumbell, and sleeve. I constantly worked to maintain calmness, and although trainable (manageable), there is a genetic component to calm grips. And by trainable, I mean that working grips will be a life long issue with a dog that is "chewy". Also, he was very strong in the protection work.

Calm grips in protection work do display confidence and mental clarity... If a dog chews on the sleeve, for some reason, he is unsure or uncomfortable... And being "wound up" doesn't necessarily translate as fear. To me, chewing on the sleeve is like someone sitting in a chair and pulsing one of their legs up-and-down... They are fidgeting... They maybe have something else on their mind... They cannot seem to relax. They are channeling something on their mind through "anxious" behavior. To me, "nervousness" or "edginess" doesn't necessarily mean lack of confidence... A dog that is chewy on the sleeve may do so because he is too overloaded... And if you are overloaded, you are not calm. Remember, a nervous, edgy dog can be fear forward as well...

dogs that are more civil than prey will not show full calm grip in general , dogs that want to tear you to pieces will sometimes engage full but fight into a sloppy grip , dogs that want nothing else than to apport the sleeve will in general have a full and calm grip , but are not allways couragious dogs

preydrive , can  be devided in two different drives ,
first ;there are dogs who chase everything , but as soon as the prey stops moving they loose interest
second ; there are dogs that  will chase , but as soon as they got hold on something they will not give up on it

the second type are in general the dogs that will have a full and calm grip , but not allways have to be the hardest or most couragious dogs

hans , the type of pups that hangon to a rag in your picture , are not the ones Im looking for to keep
I want a different balance of prey/defence/sharpness  so dont care for the prey piranhas , but must admit that pics and clips like that do sell puppies easily

also I see that some people are not used to work with a dog with a different balance of drives

this young  male about 12 months came back to me for not biting hard enough , trained only over prey

once put pressure on him , one time good this is what he showed in biting
he is now a policedog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2yov1ePNZM

another of my breeding
great grips and drives , but not the most hard or couragious dog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G17cyznTTQ

Daryl,  the statement with the prey is not equation (=), it is implication (=>).
THUS: 
The dog (if properly trained) with high drive and courage  will have calm full grip. 
But not every dog with full grip has a high drive and or courage. The statement does not go both way (= ). 
This black car is Ford; but not all Fords are black cars.
Laws of logic:)
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

 

Yeah, except what's being described is not logical, and more like rock-paper-scissors.  Any connection seems coincidental, because any combination of character traits can include full or not full grips.  Nothing "in general" can be concluded from a series of conditional statements like this...

dogs that are more civil than prey will not show full calm grip in general , dogs that want to tear you to pieces will sometimes engage full but fight into a sloppy grip , dogs that want nothing else than to apport the sleeve will in general have a full and calm grip , but are not allways couragious dogs

"The dog (if properly trained) with high drive and courage will have calm full grip."

(if properly trained) implies that you now are saying that high drive and courage is genetic, and calm full grip is taught?  I know the answer, but I have no clue what you're saying at times.