Front angulation - Page 1

I have been closely following threads of GSD critique in the last few months, I read previous posts on conformation, critiques and I have read suggested discussions and articles with illustrations etc. I do understand the rear angulation very well and I can judge the rear angulation of a GSD to a fair gegree.
What I am lost at is how do you judge the shoulder lay, front angulation and arm length from a posted picture. The front angulations are (hidden) not clear, how do you see and judge them ?

Ibrahim

One more question please,

My vet keeps telling me that if when you look at a GSD sidewiew you see his chest protruding like a barrel shape, then he is strong and his lungs and heart are big and strong, is this true?? as I see beautiful GSDs with relatively flat chest.

Thanks
Ibrahim

What your vet is saying is, at best, a generalization. In fact, from a movement perspective, too much of a chest can and does interfere with proper stride and movement. As for front angulations, I will try to answer later if I can find some diagrams to help explain....It is an art and takes lots of practice to visualize what is really there structurally and most people are not very good at it judging from a lot of the off the cuff critiques we see here on the forum. Of course, photos too are deceiving.

Without going into the technicalities of shoulder blades (scapulas) and upper arms (humerus) and their relative lengths and angles, the easiest way to determine if the front assembly of a GSD is good is by looking at the appearance of the neck of the dog. If the neck of the dog appears long, then the scapula is well laid back and the upper arm would probably be of proper length and angle. A scapula that is not well laid back but is upright, means that the top curve of the scapula will be closer to the dog's head and the neck will appear short. This results in what is known as "flat withers".

It is often not realised that the front assembly of a GSD is more difficult to improve through breeding than the rear angulation and hence it is more important that it  be as close to ideal as possible, since it plays a greater part in how efficiently or effortlessly a GSD moves, no matter how well proportioned the rear is.

The depth of the chest determines the lung capacity and should be close to the elbow joint of the front leg (may appear lower because of the hair) and the length from the withers to the bottom of the chest should be the same as the distance between the bottom of the chest to the ground, when looked at from the side, in an ideal GSD. The shape of the chest or rib cage (barrel shaped or narrow) as seem from the front determines whether there is interference with the elbows and hence the parallel movement of the front legs. A good front assembly will also result in a chest that appears to protrude as seen from the side due to the way the shoulder blade and upper arm are put together.

Hodie and Shezam1,

Thanks a lot for your reply.

I am attaching pictures of two GSDs, two of each to compare between both and learn from that.

Dog1 picture 1


Dog1 picture 2

Dog 2 picture 1



Dog2 picture 2

If I understood what Shezam1 explained above , both dog 1 & 2 have good front angulation but shoulder lay of dog 2 is better than dog1 and chest width of dog 2 is better than that of dog 1 but chest depth of dog 1 is better than that of dog 2 .

Please comment/explain/clarify

Ibrahim

an example of very nice shoulder construction: www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/441845.html

an example of a dog (mine) with an upper arm that is too straight, creating a wide angle between the upper arm and shoulder blade. This did not prevent the dog from obtaining AKC/Can. Championship.

Kudos Rik for showing your own dog in the example... (and Chip Raynor should know better than stretch the rear that far... lol)
If more people could admit their beloved dogs have a fault The breed would be better off.  ALL DOGS  HAVE THEM!!  And the breed can benefit from more honesty by owners and breeders! 

I took a judging seminiar many years ago.  Orry Nordness gave it in Southern Connecticut.  He used white tape on the dogs to accent the length and angles of the fore and aft legs of the dog. Actually putting tape on the dogs and videotaping them at various gaits.  For the proper angle, and max opening of the front shoulder the shoulderblade and lower arm should be the same length first.  The actual angle can be seen if you put tape on the coat, and are not mislead by color patterns.  Using videotape to watch even small pups movements is a great help in judging reach and drive even at a young age. Just be sure that they're moving at a comfortable pace (trot, I don't mean pace that way). Far more dogs (In my opinion) have faulty front angles than rear... primarilly because it's not as obvious.   

What about this dog ?
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/forum/42569.html
Front angulation ?