Tracking.... - Page 1

I have a dog that has been imprinted. He goes forward but is not showing interest in food. I have not really made him hungury...(missed Friday meals to track Saturday!) is about it. I can't seem to find something that he absolutely loves....he has a healthy appetite! Imput welcome!

I am thinking of putting a ball at the end.....he isn't committed! Afraid he'll just fly down track for the ball! He is 18 months and is really a begginner. I'm thinking of starting over.....this is my weakest phase...and because of my lack of knowledge....my dogs weakest phase. I can honestly say it has been a long time since we tracked because of weather!

What bait have you tried Judron?   You say the dog is imprinted so he is FST tracking?   If the issue is to bring his drives up, try burying balls on the track, this works for me.

Missbeeb,  I prefer using bait to a toy because in schutzhund we want to see a dog's nose in each footstep, the way to teach that particular behaviour is with bait.  I bury balls on the track and at the end of the track, but this is for drive it does not teach the dog the behaviour of nose in each footstep.  I too would be interested to know how to teach  a deep nose in each footstep with a dog who is not motivated by hunger. 

Is the track too long ?

Is he losing interest ? or is there no head down to begin with ?

Try laying a track with Tuna in oil.  It's stinky, it's gross and dogs seem to love it.  You can drip the oil along the track drop by drop and he picks up the scent but no food until he is at the end.  When he gets to the end you can dump it out for him to snarf up and it's good for the coat! Just crack the can open for dribbling it along the track, stick it in a zip lock bag to save for later when the track has aged and the dog has tracked it and is ready for the reward.  This will help keep the smell off of your hands and clothes.  Good luck.

If your dog has a good appetite, you should be able to get him tracking well for food.
I use my dogs normal food (Royal Canin) on the track
 The difference probably is that your dog is not viewing the track as their meal for the day, I track every day initially and that is the only time the dog is fed, it is all on the track, nothing else, obviously you must do this every day to get the dogs to realise that tracking means feedtime, I think this is more important than trying to find higher value rewards to use, obviously it is a lot of work.
I have posted a link to a young female I am using this method with, good luck. 
www.youtube.com/watch

Very nice work Tony and a very nice and committed dog. I also use regular food for tracking, although I freeze it in spring and summer because otherwise there will be ants on it in seconds and that can discourage and bother some dogs. Sometimes I will vary that with something else special, just to keep interest high. And there is often a bigger or more tasty treat at the end.

Judron, I also agree with Tony about the food issue and the hunger drive. It is also something Bernhard Flinks and others I have trained with are adamant about. If a single day of missing food is not enough, then try two or three days of no food before tracking. In my experience, most dogs by day three are really hungry and they will work. It is a rare dog that really has little or no food drive, unless there is something wrong with the dog.

The other thing is to make sure that the track is not too long or too difficult and I am sure you know this too. In my experience, most people try to go too quickly in their training for tracking. Statistically, I believe it is the weak link and for good reason. I like to think I had better have done at least 100 proper tracks essentially correctly before my dog is ready for tracking in a trial. 

Once a dog has learned to track, it can be motivational to pull out a ball at the end, or place one here or there on the track, buried or not, or do something else to make it less routine, but one does have to be careful because many dogs will end up racing just to find the tug or ball and out the window goes the methodical track. As you know, changing speed is also penalized in competition, and using something on the track if the dog thinks it is there can make it more likely that the dog will change speed.

Depending on how old your dog is, I might even recommend going way back to squares for a month or a few weeks, heavily baited to teach a work ethic. In a very young pup, I generally don't allow more than one or two head lifts or getting distracted or I take them off immediately. In an older dog, I might even allow less, if I think it understands the food is on the ground and is really the object for the moment. If a dog is hungry, they are far less likely to get distracted. 

In my opinion, and based only on what little you write here, I think you need to make the dog hungry and yes, back up quite a ways. Short tracks, even two or three laid 15 feet apart and no longer than 30- paces, with regular food, and a truly hungry dog may be helpful.

Good luck.

Nice try Tony but you don't fool me!

I know a hundred foot extension cord and a well camouflaged vacuum cleaner when I see one!

Seriously...awesome job!

Deb

Ron, do you remember me having to use canned salmon as bait in order to get Hexe to bother with the food for tracking?  She'd readily and willingly follow the track, but because she wouldn't pick up each little piece of bait in the footsteps, I was told she was 'too fast' and 'too hectic' and that I *had* to slow her down by finding something she *would* pick up and eat out of each step.  Bits of canned salmon was something she considered worthy of eating off the ground--she was a dog with inborn impeccable manners and restraint, and wasn't inclined to "Hoover" stuff she found lying on the ground. (A trait I actually like...if I dropped a prescription med on the floor, I didn't have to worry it would immediately be gobbled up, for instance. But I digress.)

Now I'll tell you what Armin Winkler said to me when I asked him about this 'problem' at a seminar in PA:  "If the dog is following the track, and isn't missing turns or articles, who cares how fast she goes???"   He added that if I was hoping to compete at National or higher levels, then it could pose a problem as far as points went--depending on the judge--but otherwise, I should leave the dog alone and let her work at her own speed, as long as she wasn't making mistakes (and she wasn't). 

IOW, what he advised was this: stop trying to make the dog track in the style *you* want, and let her track the way she's comfortable, as long as she's doing it correctly.  If your dog isn't an 'intense' tracker, then it's probably going to take a lot of, <ahem>,  "effort" to *make* him one.  Is it really worth it, to break the trust you've built with the dog so far, just to try and transform his natural tracking style to what you'd prefer? (Especially since we can't even do the job ourselves...who are we to tell a dog that the way it's tracking is wrong?)