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by Swifteagle on 24 February 2010 - 11:02
HI,
As some of you might already know I have a 4 month old GSD working line, first time I have had a working line.
Tonight my Girlfriend gave the puppy some raw chicken to have, I decided to come over and pat him as I like to get them used to me touching them while they eat. He started growling at me and my first reaction was to do the Alpha role over on him... I just didnt like him doing that to me, I am the master. after that he allowed me to get close to him without any issues.... but then my girlfriend tried to come close to him and he also growled at her...
I want the dog to do some protection later on, I am not sure if I did the right thing or wrong thing, Just wondering if anyone can tell me so that way I dont screw him over and then he wont be good for protection down the track.
so Alpha role over a good idea or is there an alternative.
Thanks alot...
by owl01 on 24 February 2010 - 11:02
There will be some more experienced people than me give you some ideas but i have had good results with if puppy growls over food i have hand fed all the meals for some weeks after.Puppy earns all his meals in training,raw included.There is no bowl feed until im happy with pup not seeing me as competition for food but provider.
Good luck with him
Good luck with him
by lucy71 on 24 February 2010 - 12:02
An alpha roll on a 4 month old pup! heaven help him , try making him more comfortable around you whilst he is eating instead of resorting to violence
by Lief on 24 February 2010 - 13:02
That aphla wolf rollover thing is overated Its really the bigger picture that you need to work on. By having her go over there you were just setting him up for failure and reinforcing that he needs to protect his ''prize'' .Don't set up any situations for a repeat performance and hand feed any treats in conjunction with obedience commands also avoid wrestling around on the ground or anything thing that might cause him to think you are his ''peer'' because dogs are often compelled to gain hierarchy over their peers.Posturing is everything to puppies. You must act the part of the dominant dog all the time and dominant dogs don't sidle over and grovel when other dogs are eating bones low ranking individuals do that.
by GSDXephyr on 24 February 2010 - 13:02
<<<and dominant dogs don't sidle over and grovel when other dogs are eating bones low ranking individuals do that.>>>
I like your post Lief. Especially that line. It's so hard for people see how human behaviors, postures ,and mannerisms look from the dog's perspective. What we *think* we are doing is so often not at all what the dog is seeing.
Heather
I like your post Lief. Especially that line. It's so hard for people see how human behaviors, postures ,and mannerisms look from the dog's perspective. What we *think* we are doing is so often not at all what the dog is seeing.
Heather
by happyday on 24 February 2010 - 14:02
At 4 months old you have to do establish the "Alpha" roll. My male started growling at me at the food dish when he was less than three months old. Establishing the leadership roll starts when that pup comes into your house.
The food dish is one place that it has to be established as well as if they have a bone and they growl. When they are 3-4 months old it is easier to establish then when they are 13 months old and weighs 90 pounds. Establish the roll, in my opinion, would be to take the food away, hand feeding and if the growling persists - simple putting the puppy down on it side and holding him there for a short time. That isn't going to hurt the pup at 4 months old.
Happyday
The food dish is one place that it has to be established as well as if they have a bone and they growl. When they are 3-4 months old it is easier to establish then when they are 13 months old and weighs 90 pounds. Establish the roll, in my opinion, would be to take the food away, hand feeding and if the growling persists - simple putting the puppy down on it side and holding him there for a short time. That isn't going to hurt the pup at 4 months old.
Happyday
by pt1 on 24 February 2010 - 15:02
try hand feeding and teach the leave command with food as reward, rather than penalising bad behaviour
by hodie on 24 February 2010 - 15:02
I disagree with most of the advice here. No, I do not suggest "alpha roll", whatever you might mean by that term with a four month old pup. On the other hand, you are correct in that YOU are the MASTER and so is anyone else in your household, as long as the interactions with the pup are consistent.
I would definitely try some of the alternative food feeding methods as suggested WITH THE ADDITION of a set up where the pup growls. And I would then grab him by the scruff and shake him and loudly say "no". This is not going to harm the dog, but it does make it crystal clear that he is not allowed to do that. Any attempt at biting you should be met with a similar response. I see far too many dogs whose owners were afraid to set limits. In some dogs, all it takes is the "eagle eye" and a firm no and they get it. Other dogs do take more and need more vigorous correction. As long as you can do it quickly enough so the consequences are understood by the dog to be a result of its behavior, then do it. You are not going to hurt him or make him any less capable of doing work later on if you do everything correctly in the meantime. But he must know you will NOT tolerate certain behaviors, and growling over food when someone approaches is something that MUST be stopped and now.
Just my two cents, take it or leave it, as you wish.
I would definitely try some of the alternative food feeding methods as suggested WITH THE ADDITION of a set up where the pup growls. And I would then grab him by the scruff and shake him and loudly say "no". This is not going to harm the dog, but it does make it crystal clear that he is not allowed to do that. Any attempt at biting you should be met with a similar response. I see far too many dogs whose owners were afraid to set limits. In some dogs, all it takes is the "eagle eye" and a firm no and they get it. Other dogs do take more and need more vigorous correction. As long as you can do it quickly enough so the consequences are understood by the dog to be a result of its behavior, then do it. You are not going to hurt him or make him any less capable of doing work later on if you do everything correctly in the meantime. But he must know you will NOT tolerate certain behaviors, and growling over food when someone approaches is something that MUST be stopped and now.
Just my two cents, take it or leave it, as you wish.
by Lief on 24 February 2010 - 16:02
The growling is the symptom of the bigger problem, the puppy does not view the owner in the right light largely in part due to the owners actions Growling at what the puppy percieves as lesser individual trying to take its food is normal behavior. puppies do not inately know the difference between dogs and humans I would not want to put a puppy in a situation where it was attacked by an older dog over food so I would not want to ''attack'' the puppy myself I would not start any correction based dynamic that involved confrontations around food instead I would inundate the puppy with what I like., things like running to me as fast as possble for treats fetching the ball etc
by ShadyLady on 24 February 2010 - 18:02
I strongly 2nd what Hodie has said.
Also, Swifteagle, we talked about your training with this dog, didn't we? I think the advice was that at the very least you need to instill manners and be able to manage your puppy with basic obedience. Well, this is one of those times.
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