A Lil Pet Peeve of Mine - Page 1

Schutzhund dogs and PPDs are not the same thing; and I get so tired of people confusing this; especially people who say they want a "trained schutzhund dog for protection." 

It's been my observation that most PPDs, Military- and Police-dogs can do Schutzhund; but many sport dogs are only trained to focus on the sleeve, rather than the decoy. People who say they want, or worse yet -buy!- a Schutzhund dog, then wind up surprised when it doesn't do anything but go after a sleeve, frustrate me. Sure some sport dogs are decoy-focused, especially those trained on a hidden sleeve... but as a general rule if people want a PPD they should get a dog specifically for that.

Schutzhund, Rings, KNVP... they're sports to demonstrate ability, rather than real-life application thereof.

Some people just can't seem to grasp this concept, then blame the dog. -- Of course on the flip side, the seller ought be honest and explain the difference before a sport dog is sold to an owner who wants a PPD.

ITA, JC!


I wish I remembered the source of this story, but unfortunately, I didn't  bookmark a link, or make a copy of it, so I've long forgotten where I heard this.

A lady was going through a messy divorce. The ex was threatening her nd stalking her, so she bought a Sch 3 dog for $3,000 thinking it would protect her and her home. One night when she was out, the ex broke into her house, and stole a lot of stuff...INCLUDING THE DOG!!

My Schutzhund dog can't even SEE the man...it's all about the sleeve. I don't think she'd bite an intruder unless he had one fat arm. I'm starting my next dog in PSA to try to rectify that tendency.  

many sport dogs are only trained to focus on the sleeve, rather than the decoy. 

And is this a good thing or a bad thing? Is the lack of real-world protection a reflection of training habit or has the once famous protective instinct been bred out of GSDs? IMO, when you make obtaining a sport title the breeding requirement for GSDs, you get what you breed for.  Good thing? Or bad thing?

and here's another thing to chew on.......
what good does the dog do by being locked up in a kennel outdoors?
if it truly was a protection dog, wouldn't you want it by your side?
pjp

My dogs' job was always protect the family (me), titles were done so they would be bred according the standard and as a tradition.

I'm not criticizing any particular person or breeder here, not jc.carroll or VomMarischal or anyone else.

I simply want to know if people think it's a good idea to breed for a sport standard or if it could be changing/have already changed the GSD temperament. And if so, is that a good thing or not?

I don't know. I suspect that it's the style of certain trainers rather than a genetic issue, but I'll tell you for sure in a year when I have progeny in training. Frankly, I think you're right, that focusing so hard on Sch could change the GSD temperament. Again, that's why I want to play at PSA a little bit...kind of feel out my bloodlines, see what's happening in a non-schutzhund environment.

First and foremost, my dogs must protect me.  If they will not, they cannot live at my house.  I live in the country....as safe a place as any...in this day and age.

Schutzhund did not start out as a "sport".  Many of us do not have "sport dogs".  For most people, it is more likely they will need their dog for protection, than they will when a national.

As I see it......the people around schutzhund use to be a bit "savory".  They were rough and tumble folks.  A bit rough around the edges.  They also could handle tough dogs.  Then some not so rough and tumble people discovered schutzhund.  They could not handle the tougher dogs....really had no business with them.  That, IMO, has been the weak link in our dogs. People didn't use to talk about "handler aggression".  Yes, sometimes you get a little bite. But, if we want to maintain the toughness and strength of character in our GSDs, we must also keep the toughness and strength of character in the handlers.  Many handlers get themselves bit, due to making their dogs do things, as opposed to making them "want" to do.

BTW, my dogs aren't sleeve retrievers.....I don't expect a helper to command my dogs, praise my dogs, or correct my dogs with a line.  Just be a "bad guy" for them.  Make defense, fight , and protect yourself!!