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by msbwarrior on 08 February 2010 - 21:02
Please let me know your thoughts.
by leeshideaway on 08 February 2010 - 22:02
That's a bunch of hot air.
They can't label every show line schutzhund title as worthless.
(even if a few might be)
That is like saying because a few good athletes got "pushed" through school with barely passing grades - all athletes are dumb or everyones degree is no good if they were in sports.
I would say it depends on the dog.
A Schutzhund title in a pedigree does not mean every puppy will be a Schutzhund champion - working or show lines.
If you took your conformation line pup to a working line schutzhund club and they told you that without even looking at your pup, find a different club.
Just my opinion,
Lee
by msbwarrior on 08 February 2010 - 22:02
by Liesjers on 09 February 2010 - 01:02
The other thing is that showing is time consuming and expensive, working dogs is time consuming and expensive. You have to have a LOT of time and money on your hands to consistently do well at both. The only people/kennels I can think of really have show lines for shows and working lines for Schutzhund competition.
[I'm saying this as someone who is currently working a show line dog
]by happyday on 09 February 2010 - 01:02
You can have a working line GSD and people still tell you your dog sucks..... the dog is what it is.......don't look at the pedigree - and expect you have a working line dog and think your dog will excell in Schutzhund.... don't look at the pedigree and say it is show line and think to give up on the dog working because it is showline..... it is the DOG.... although the lines do tell a bunch - showline can work - don't kid yourself..... but it is what it is...........
......decide quick and don't waste your time... It is true alot of "show lines" have schutzhund titles and don't know how to run a blind.etc.....but then again so do alot of working lines..... they are titled quick and sold quick.... and when you get those titled dogs - they don't know anything....
But you know - if you have a showline dog - and you go to a club with workingline GSD - check out the difference.... Maybe your dog won't be any different then those working line dogs. And if so, Good for you. But chances are you will see a difference.... Seen it more than a few times with a owner of a showline GSD...
You will see the difference in the two lines and you will say - I want one of those -if you are trying to title in schutzhund Not so much work.....
Happyday
by leeshideaway on 09 February 2010 - 01:02
I do not disagree with what you are saying.
I am also aware of what has been going on. (and don't like some of it like the youtube videos, etc...)
I also know of people with show lines that feel they do not have to prove anything because their dog has it's titles and they do not want to risk injury because of their investment.
You are also talking about a breeding error - not paying close attention to temperament and drives.
If a dog has 20 pups and only 5 get titles, why are the 5 titles no good because of the 15?
Also lack of training or preparing by breeders for highly publicized events.
But to say every show line title is not a true title is hot air in my opinion.
I look at the dog.
Lee
by Kimmelot on 09 February 2010 - 02:02
Its like asking your Vet how to teach PP work. I don't believe that trainers should be evaluating your dog by paper's , but by temperment and true ablity.
Whisper
by ShadyLady on 09 February 2010 - 02:02
msbwarrior, stay with it and learn with your dog. If you get to the point where she isn't showing the drives necessary for all of SchH, you'll still (hopefully) have learned a lot. All of the experiences and talk, whether it be positive or negative or just b.s., will educate you.
You know, even if she doesn't graduate up to do bitework (but she may!) you can still do obedience and tracking!
by Liesjers on 09 February 2010 - 02:02
Also lack of training or preparing by breeders for highly publicized events."
I'm not sure I can answer that. I guess the question illustrates part of the problem. Titles are not synonymous with great work.
There are plenty of working line litters where 15 of the 20 pups are never titled, wash out of SchH, do other sports, or are "just" pets. I've got a purebred working line dog with a decent pedigree who won't tug on raw meat, lol.
There are great dogs and horrid dogs in both lines, but I think there is a pretty obvious difference in priority when it comes to breeding work vs. show. Again I say that as someone who enjoys showing my show line dog. For me, a title is not a means to an end (getting Koer'd so they can breed and enter the "working" class), but there are plenty of people for whom that's what it is. Just look at another thread on this board!
by SitasMom on 09 February 2010 - 02:02
Her daughter is going to be just like her, beautiful and driven. At 4 months, she's already on a puppy sleeve.Her grip is genetically deep. On a rag, I can pull her up off the ground. She has so much food and pray drive she goes crazy for obedience. I have to quit protection for a month or so because she is teething - she will be lost.
I boast - I apologize, I'm just so sick and tired of these people who are constantly put down show line dogs.....there are plenty of working line puppies that can't or won't work. The other day I was asked to watch a video of a working line female. Pretty dog, but her grip was pitiful, not depth, mouthy, no intensity, not strength, no nothing.
People who say that VA dog cannot have a "real" working title are just jealous that their dogs aren't both beautiful and hard.
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