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by calijo on 29 January 2010 - 11:01
Back in 1970 we were given a pup by a breeder who knew how keen on the breed we were. She was going to be our foundation bitch. Before she was old enough to breed from her she stared fitting. We went to see Dr. Croft to have her tested and she was confirmed as Epileptic. We were advised to have her put down but decided to give her a chance of life. ( The breeding part wasn't a consideration, we just wanted to keep her.)
There followed months of the most distressing period of her and our lives. Despite being on medication she got worse and was fitting more and more frequently. On Boxing Day 1972 we went out and returned to find she had been fitting for some time. She was almost unrecognisable by the time we got back. She had been walking into walls and banging herself about..They lose their sight while in a fit and lose sense of direction. It was a bloodbath in that room. She was put down as soon as we could raise a Vet at midnight.
She was a granddaughter of Quadrill of Eveley, which at the time of being given her didn't mean anything to us.
For years if any our dogs starting dreaming and twitching they were woken up as it brought back terrible memories!
I wanted to write this so that anyone who thinks this problem should be swept under the carpet for the sake of their "Good Name" might consider the heartache that goes with it when a much loved pet goes through what our bitch did.
The breeder had the litter and gave us the bitch in good faith. We did what we thought was right in trying to treat it.
Whith hindsight we should have followed the advice to have her put down. If we and the breeder had been made aware of the problem back then a lot could have been avoided. There were four pups in that litter and all turned out to be Epileptic.
So if any of you who think your animals may be affected, forget the money and reputation and take pride in coming out and naming your animal. There is no blame attatched to breeding from an affected animal if you are unaware, there is shame to do so with the knowledge and to ignore it.
All these years later it is still painful to think about and you never forget the horror of being woken in the night when your dog has it's first fit banging against a cupboard door!
Jeannette Callaway
There followed months of the most distressing period of her and our lives. Despite being on medication she got worse and was fitting more and more frequently. On Boxing Day 1972 we went out and returned to find she had been fitting for some time. She was almost unrecognisable by the time we got back. She had been walking into walls and banging herself about..They lose their sight while in a fit and lose sense of direction. It was a bloodbath in that room. She was put down as soon as we could raise a Vet at midnight.
She was a granddaughter of Quadrill of Eveley, which at the time of being given her didn't mean anything to us.
For years if any our dogs starting dreaming and twitching they were woken up as it brought back terrible memories!
I wanted to write this so that anyone who thinks this problem should be swept under the carpet for the sake of their "Good Name" might consider the heartache that goes with it when a much loved pet goes through what our bitch did.
The breeder had the litter and gave us the bitch in good faith. We did what we thought was right in trying to treat it.
Whith hindsight we should have followed the advice to have her put down. If we and the breeder had been made aware of the problem back then a lot could have been avoided. There were four pups in that litter and all turned out to be Epileptic.
So if any of you who think your animals may be affected, forget the money and reputation and take pride in coming out and naming your animal. There is no blame attatched to breeding from an affected animal if you are unaware, there is shame to do so with the knowledge and to ignore it.
All these years later it is still painful to think about and you never forget the horror of being woken in the night when your dog has it's first fit banging against a cupboard door!
Jeannette Callaway
by bazza on 29 January 2010 - 12:01
Jeannette, very touching story, and i fully agree with you that everyone should come forward who has been affected by this terrible condition, the breed should come first, ALWAYS. Thank you for sharing your story.
by pt1 on 29 January 2010 - 12:01
Thank you for sharing your story jeanette, as heartbreaking as it is we do need people to come forward so we can all be aware of affected lines. once again thank you for sharing this with us jeanette
by Alyson R on 29 January 2010 - 13:01
Jeanette I am so glad that someone who remembers the days when epilepsy was rife in the breed has given such a touching story of how it affects an individual dog.
I was a veterinary nurse from 1964 to 1973 and I can well remember that when an Alsatian walked in the door of our surgery with a problem it was frequently related to one of two hereditary conditions - HD and Epilepsy. It was absolutely heartbreaking to see how many Alsatians had epilepsy and how this drove people away from the breed. I lost touch of how many dogs I saw given sleep to save them and those were only the ones too seriously affected to be medicated.
Thanks to the efforts of people like Dr Phyllis Croft and Dr Helen Hein the breed was made aware of these conditions and the GSDLeague led the way - having initiated the BVA/GSDL hip scheme (as it was then). Epileptic lines were identified and most sensible breeders took the appropriate action by breeding away from known lines.
Epilepsy is a HIDDEN condition - as far as I am aware there is no test for it (if there is perhaps someone can post it here for all to see). The sooner the true picture is revealed the better for our breed - please be open and honest, otherwise our breed is dead in the water.
I was a veterinary nurse from 1964 to 1973 and I can well remember that when an Alsatian walked in the door of our surgery with a problem it was frequently related to one of two hereditary conditions - HD and Epilepsy. It was absolutely heartbreaking to see how many Alsatians had epilepsy and how this drove people away from the breed. I lost touch of how many dogs I saw given sleep to save them and those were only the ones too seriously affected to be medicated.
Thanks to the efforts of people like Dr Phyllis Croft and Dr Helen Hein the breed was made aware of these conditions and the GSDLeague led the way - having initiated the BVA/GSDL hip scheme (as it was then). Epileptic lines were identified and most sensible breeders took the appropriate action by breeding away from known lines.
Epilepsy is a HIDDEN condition - as far as I am aware there is no test for it (if there is perhaps someone can post it here for all to see). The sooner the true picture is revealed the better for our breed - please be open and honest, otherwise our breed is dead in the water.
by lucy71 on 29 January 2010 - 13:01
I too would be interested inknowing what/if any tests are available to identify carriers of epilepsy.
by Sue B on 29 January 2010 - 14:01
Calijo, A very heart wrenching story Jeannette and so well told, although so very sad, thank you for sharing, people need to be aware the problem still lurks around in some pedigree's.
Lucy71, My sympathies go out to you. Now to try to answere your question to which there is no straightforward answere. To an extent it is very possible the breeder could be telling you the truth, it all depends upon what lines are back there on both sides of your females pedigree. Both sire and dam have to be carrying this recessive in order to produce a fitter. If the lines from one parent are clear then a potential carrier is the worse that can be produced. It is difficult for some breeders to know all the lines of the sire but they should be conversant with their bitch line and if they are aware she carries past effected lines then full research of the stud dogs pedigree would be advisable before mating. However , one always has to take the fact that a 'New' i.e previously unknown carrier can be identified at any time for any disease. This is why openess and honesty is the best policy and why witch hunts and castigating people will never create the perfect environment for the honesty that is always needed to protect our breed. If people come forward then at least we know what lines to avoid and for those that use them unsuspectingly we can then do no more than await the outcome.
Regards
Sue b
PS - And of course I forgot to add that just because an animal has Epileptic lines back in their pedigree does not necessarily mean this animal will be carrying the recessive gene and of course if it isnt then it could not produce a fitter. This is providing of course the findings of all genetic research so far available is conclusive.
Lucy71, My sympathies go out to you. Now to try to answere your question to which there is no straightforward answere. To an extent it is very possible the breeder could be telling you the truth, it all depends upon what lines are back there on both sides of your females pedigree. Both sire and dam have to be carrying this recessive in order to produce a fitter. If the lines from one parent are clear then a potential carrier is the worse that can be produced. It is difficult for some breeders to know all the lines of the sire but they should be conversant with their bitch line and if they are aware she carries past effected lines then full research of the stud dogs pedigree would be advisable before mating. However , one always has to take the fact that a 'New' i.e previously unknown carrier can be identified at any time for any disease. This is why openess and honesty is the best policy and why witch hunts and castigating people will never create the perfect environment for the honesty that is always needed to protect our breed. If people come forward then at least we know what lines to avoid and for those that use them unsuspectingly we can then do no more than await the outcome.
Regards
Sue b
PS - And of course I forgot to add that just because an animal has Epileptic lines back in their pedigree does not necessarily mean this animal will be carrying the recessive gene and of course if it isnt then it could not produce a fitter. This is providing of course the findings of all genetic research so far available is conclusive.
by pt1 on 30 January 2010 - 15:01
sadly Lucy71 byb often dont pay attention to their dogs pedigrees and so yes its possible for them to breed without knowing whats in the lines
by mooonie on 30 January 2010 - 17:01
As much as I've loved my companions and wanted them to live longer through their progeny, I will not breed.
I am not an expert and I've been involved with a breed group, Golden Retrievers, that is rife which Epilespy, so much so that it's not a matter of "if" but more a matter of "when" the seizures start.
BYB, puppymills, unethical breeders and those people with good intentions, will do to the GSD what has happened in other breeds.
Neurologic diseases- King Charles Spaniel
Diabetes- Poodles
Hip Dyplasia-Goldens, GSD's,
Epilespy- Golden and Labrador Retrievers
It makes me incredibly sad. Thank you for sharing your story.
Many have been the times when I craddled one of mine having a break-through seizure.
I am not an expert and I've been involved with a breed group, Golden Retrievers, that is rife which Epilespy, so much so that it's not a matter of "if" but more a matter of "when" the seizures start.
BYB, puppymills, unethical breeders and those people with good intentions, will do to the GSD what has happened in other breeds.
Neurologic diseases- King Charles Spaniel
Diabetes- Poodles
Hip Dyplasia-Goldens, GSD's,
Epilespy- Golden and Labrador Retrievers
It makes me incredibly sad. Thank you for sharing your story.
Many have been the times when I craddled one of mine having a break-through seizure.
by jessiejames on 17 August 2010 - 15:08
by noddi on 17 August 2010 - 17:08
good thread Sue B.MAYBE ITS NOW TIME FOR US SHOW PEOPLE TO FORGET THE POLITICS AND WHEN SOMEONE ENCOUNTERS AN INHERITED GENETIC DISEASE IN ONE OF THEIR PUPPIES/DOGS ONE CAN INFORM SAY THE LEAGUE AND HAVE THE PEDIGREE OF SAID AFFLICTED DOG PRINTED FOR ALL TO SEE,FOR ATM ONE IS AFRAID OF ANY REPRISALS FROM SAID STUD DOG/DAM OWNERS.Carole Spelman
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