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by blair built gsd on 28 January 2010 - 06:01
I want to know why i see so many Americans buying gsd from other country's especially Germany i myself have to be able to see with my own eyes at least one parent and i rely like to see both and i like to see the whole litter together and be able to see perspective pup buys to make sure that i am making the best decision i can on the puppy i am buying now there are all kinds of things to be looking at and for depending on what you are looking for in the puppy these things are impossible to find out from a phone call and some pictures or video clips now i do understand there can be situations where it can be done without actually flying over there but most of the time even traveling across the USA would be half the cost of a trip to Germany i would think plus all the horror story we read on here everyday about all kinds of ripoffs and we all heard the story's of them just selling us the junk which i have to give credit to since it was a big time German breeder that told me that and we know the gsds in the USA are as good as any once you find the rite one so tell me what am i missing it worth the risk or is it that people still believe you cant get a good gsd in the USA
by windwalker18 on 29 January 2010 - 01:01
If I wanted a specific breeding DIRECTLY from Stud A and Bitch B... I would import. If I wanted one from Stud A and a bitch of a certain line I'd look for a recient import of a bred bitch... If I wanted a dog from specific lines, but not necessarily from a specific Male/female I'd probably be able to find it in the US. If I wanted to show or own a dog who carried a Kennel name that's well known in Europe I'd have to import.
Saying that I also have no personal contacts in Europe, so would have to rely on luck and reputation to import... Checking on health and quality of a number of dogs produced is easier for me to check out in the US. There's several kennels I've seen a LOT of quality dogs produced from in Europe, but that's not always proof of the general quality of their dogs. In AKC lines I've seen kennels producing 4-5 litters a month...5 X 6 (average litter) = 30 pups a month= 360 pups per year = 3600 pups in 10 years... etc... if they produce 15 sound Champion dogs... that leaves an awful lot of dogs who don't make the grade... but the same standard, if a "kennel" raises one litter of 6 pups, and in 10 years produces 3 well known dogs you have to ask if their record isn't better...
Basically what I'm saying is that the more you know (import or USA) about the lines, the dogs, and the person behind them the better your choices. Don't assume that JUST because it's an import it's better, or JUST because it's American Bred it's inferior... The old days of Europe only exporting their culls to inexperienced US buyers aren't quite the same. People can also import semen to breed in the US to European dogs...
Saying that I also have no personal contacts in Europe, so would have to rely on luck and reputation to import... Checking on health and quality of a number of dogs produced is easier for me to check out in the US. There's several kennels I've seen a LOT of quality dogs produced from in Europe, but that's not always proof of the general quality of their dogs. In AKC lines I've seen kennels producing 4-5 litters a month...5 X 6 (average litter) = 30 pups a month= 360 pups per year = 3600 pups in 10 years... etc... if they produce 15 sound Champion dogs... that leaves an awful lot of dogs who don't make the grade... but the same standard, if a "kennel" raises one litter of 6 pups, and in 10 years produces 3 well known dogs you have to ask if their record isn't better...
Basically what I'm saying is that the more you know (import or USA) about the lines, the dogs, and the person behind them the better your choices. Don't assume that JUST because it's an import it's better, or JUST because it's American Bred it's inferior... The old days of Europe only exporting their culls to inexperienced US buyers aren't quite the same. People can also import semen to breed in the US to European dogs...
by blair built gsd on 29 January 2010 - 06:01
To me it just sounds like alot of variables that are out of the buyers hands i know there are always things that are out of your control but its just seems more economical to buy in the US but i do also see if you want something that you can only get out of the country you have to do what you got to but i just cant see the quality difference myself with so many great dogs here
by VomRuiz on 30 January 2010 - 07:01
Like I said in the other post, it was more economical for me to import my puppies than buy one here.
The prices I found when I first started looking (not including shipping) for a pup out of hip/elbow/dna/breed surveyed and titled parents started at $1500.
That was a lot more than I wanted to pay, especially since everyone knows puppies are a gamble.
I have nothing against breeders with high ethics, breeding from quality stock here in the US, but most of the prices were outrageous.
Out of curiousity, are you speaking of workingline or showline? Or both?
I just don't understand I guess, because most of the big name kennels I see here with quality dogs, also imported them (or their parents.) And they advertise that as a selling point on their websites.
Stacy
The prices I found when I first started looking (not including shipping) for a pup out of hip/elbow/dna/breed surveyed and titled parents started at $1500.
That was a lot more than I wanted to pay, especially since everyone knows puppies are a gamble.
I have nothing against breeders with high ethics, breeding from quality stock here in the US, but most of the prices were outrageous.
Out of curiousity, are you speaking of workingline or showline? Or both?
I just don't understand I guess, because most of the big name kennels I see here with quality dogs, also imported them (or their parents.) And they advertise that as a selling point on their websites.
Stacy
by blair built gsd on 02 February 2010 - 07:02
I mean all lines what my big issue is that you dont get to see the dog in person you dont know if the dog you want is the dog you get i think it is to risky for a normal puppy buyer even if you get what you pay for i have been told over and over the germans always keep the best stock for themself buy the german breeders themself just so much more that could go wrong its scarey to me
by Oskar1 on 02 February 2010 - 09:02
Blair built gsd,
even if one decides to buy in the US, it might be hard to see the pups or parents, if the breeder lives on the East Coast and the buyer on the West Coast ! I agree, it is always better to see with your own eyes, but sometimes, if you are set on that certain pup,it is simply not possible.
Moneywise, it sometimes can be less expensive to import a pup, incl. shipping, than to buy from some kennels in the US. I sometimes do wonder how they come up with these outrages prices, I know for sure, I would never get these prices for my pups.
Windwalker hits the nail right on the head with his/her explanation.
In regards to your statement that the Germans keep their best stock to themselfs, oh mighty, if it would be just that easy !
Most German breeders are doing this out of hobby, meaning, they do not have the resources to a) keep an exxessive number of dogs, b) they want to continue their linage, c) and yup, they keep a pup to do just that.
And to make a point, if I want to keep a pup out of one of my litters, yep, I get to choose which one. I could not see, why anyone else would do it any different. But, guess what, a pup is a crapshot, and this counts just the same for the breeder or a buyer ! It only seems, that many peopel tend to forgett that.
Ulli
even if one decides to buy in the US, it might be hard to see the pups or parents, if the breeder lives on the East Coast and the buyer on the West Coast ! I agree, it is always better to see with your own eyes, but sometimes, if you are set on that certain pup,it is simply not possible.
Moneywise, it sometimes can be less expensive to import a pup, incl. shipping, than to buy from some kennels in the US. I sometimes do wonder how they come up with these outrages prices, I know for sure, I would never get these prices for my pups.
Windwalker hits the nail right on the head with his/her explanation.
In regards to your statement that the Germans keep their best stock to themselfs, oh mighty, if it would be just that easy !
Most German breeders are doing this out of hobby, meaning, they do not have the resources to a) keep an exxessive number of dogs, b) they want to continue their linage, c) and yup, they keep a pup to do just that.
And to make a point, if I want to keep a pup out of one of my litters, yep, I get to choose which one. I could not see, why anyone else would do it any different. But, guess what, a pup is a crapshot, and this counts just the same for the breeder or a buyer ! It only seems, that many peopel tend to forgett that.
Ulli
by Oskar1 on 05 February 2010 - 17:02
bump
by Oskar1 on 05 February 2010 - 17:02
Sorry for bumping this up, I was little confused - this thread is 2 times there.
Ulli
Ulli
by Kerschberger on 06 February 2010 - 19:02
Unless you are familiar with the language and several kennel owners and trainers, do not venture to purchase from any one in Europe. They do not give you garantees on anything, and they will only ship you a pup which is the least quality as its leaving their
country any way.
IF you have the budget, you go there, you pick your pup, you leave with pup AND PAPERS (another hangup in Germany and other countries as it takes longer to obtain them than 8 weeks after birth).
You will never get your foot in the door with the considered truly important litters. ie a VA female to a VA male as those usually go to judges and friends in the show circuit.
Its gone wrong too many times for too many importers. It can go wrong here too, but the internet is a handy resource for checking up on breeders and its only going to get better.
PS. i also know that buying from a great breeder here, you will have a better chance of getting a great dog.
country any way.
IF you have the budget, you go there, you pick your pup, you leave with pup AND PAPERS (another hangup in Germany and other countries as it takes longer to obtain them than 8 weeks after birth).
You will never get your foot in the door with the considered truly important litters. ie a VA female to a VA male as those usually go to judges and friends in the show circuit.
Its gone wrong too many times for too many importers. It can go wrong here too, but the internet is a handy resource for checking up on breeders and its only going to get better.
PS. i also know that buying from a great breeder here, you will have a better chance of getting a great dog.
by blair built gsd on 07 February 2010 - 03:02
Kerschberger i think you feel the same way i do the big problem for me is that as soon as someone imports a dog its already a champion and its just flat out better than what you can get in America and that is bullshit most of the time they are garbage that cost twice as much in my opion you havea better chance of geting a good dog here plus there is not as many hoops to jump threw just like you said a regular Joe will never have a chance of geting a pup out of there top lines
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