Asking for helpful advice re puppy health issues. - Page 1

I sold a puppy who is now just 5 months old And this is from an email I received yesterday :

 Quote   "We have just picked our puppy up from the vet after they expressed concern about her gait and some wear on her rear toe nails. We had noticed as she grew that she was not as coordinated with her hind legs as we would have expected but put it down to her being a big puppy "still finding her feet.
Our vet was concerned about the ataxia in her rear legs and her stance, she was also sore when her hind legs were stretched and extended. Our vet suggested that we have her spayed and a full examination and hip x-rays under the same anesthetic which we have done. The x-rays found nothing obiously wrong hips are fine as is lumbar sciatic area. She does have "clicking in both hips which indicates mild to moderate HD. They are also going to check her for Osteochondroma.
As Hips and lumbar sciatia are  not concidered to be the likely cause of her gait problem we have taken blood for testing  for Toxoplasmosis and Neospora caninum. The vet has suggested that these infections may have been pick up in utero."  Unquote

Th dam did have a high temperature 12 hours pre delivery of her litter and her litter was delivered 7 days early resulting in 4 live and 4 dead on arrival puppies of which one was detatched and had defacated in the sac, ( I believe that this was the reason for her temp spiking to 40.1). The bitch was seen by a vet who could find no reason for the temp and told me that all seemed to be well.

There is more but too lengthy to write up they say that they are dissapointed that their kids will not be able to play ball games or run with her now and even if they wanted to show her that is now out of the question.

Those of you who know please tell me -------- is this a vet that is taking new owners for a ride ? Does this sound like a NORMAL slow maturing but fast growing puppy ?
The dam of this puppy has previously had a litter of 8 very big boys before and had no issues and they are now 18 months old.
I have been tempted to take my bitch and have her tested for both Toxoplasmosis and Neospora right away but my vet says just to wait.

I would tell them to take a video of the puppy gaiting around on leash coming and going and some of her running around I have seen people that start imagining everything is wrong. I would also offer to pay the 25 dollars for an OFA consult since they seem convinced the puppy is dysplastic.. were they seven days early by virtue of a progesterone test? they usually will not survive being born that early and will be bald on the feet and face ?

Lief, She only had 1 mating and that was on day 13 - 2 days post Progesterone of 9nm. The stud was not interested on day 11 nor was he interested on day 15. Therefore I took day 13 as day 1.

All puppies were fully coated and developed but smaller that normal.

I have spoken to them already and said that I am willing to pay for a specialist evaluation of the x-rays. I think that they are still in shock as to what their vet is telling them is happening to their baby that they held such high hopes for.

I hold no faith in most vets these days, even though I do work as a veterinary nurse. A few years ago I took one of my girls to have her hips and elbows x-rayed and the vet told me that she has hip dysplasia and even discussed surgery so I went to a specialty vet and re did the x-rays and they passed as good.

I really hate to be so negative in regards to vets but there are soooooo many bad ones

  How many days post breeding did she have the puppies?  its usually +/- 1 day post ovulation but the puppies I have now were -2 days post ovulation if I was just going by the breeding it would seem as though they were 4 -5 days early  ! would send everthing to OFA including the complete record and history they will consult anyone they have to they do much more than just evaluate x-rays and all for 25 dollars! I would tell them to send you the video too sometimes people that have never seen dogs with angulation do not understand what they are seeing  I would tell  them to ask the Vet if they have seen a lot of cases of this? sort of like the way all emercency Vets think they see parvo in every dog

They were born  57 days post breeding so only 6 days early

what was the progesterone prior to 9 ? based on ovulation they were not that early since the whelp date is based on ovulation not breeding

I would have this pup evaluated by a board certified specialist, neuro and orthopod. I have seen many large breed pups that walk and run like their front and back legs will not hold them up. They have turned out great. I am sure that these specialist if they do not find anything wrong will suggest alot of swimming. The specialist will also suggest other exercises that will help muscles and joints.
Always,
Cee

Of course, they should speak to  another veterinarian, hopefully specialist. 

Lief, Progesterone of 9 was her first test -- - usually my females are not ready to mate until atleast day 18 and as late as day 28 so when her first was 9 it was a great surprise to me. Usually I start testing around day 11 and find that it's about  < 1 or 2 and continue every 2 day.

At the moment I will wait for her owners to contact me with the blood results and fingers crossed they will be negative then we will work out what they want to do next. I would like to see them defer on any more tests until the hip x-rays are checked by one of  our German Shepherd radiologist who evaluates our x-rays for the A Z stamp

I am also annoyed that the vet subjected a young puppy to stretching and extending her hind legs, most young puppies would express discomfort at that. I do not allow my vet to do that on young puppies.

The video is also good advice thank you for that.

I really don't think they were that early if she ovulated one day before .9 even two days before its hard to say, You didn't do anything wrong, try not to worry!!   I would be interested to see how she moves  Some people [laymen] think my ''Eli'' moves funny only because they never saw a dog with that type structure