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by missyfly96 on 13 December 2009 - 03:12
Okay I just switched my dog over to Fromm Gold because I can get it locally in a breeder sized bag at a good price.
However, now I'm finding out it contains citric acid, which from what I am reading is thought to be a cause of bloat. The more I read the more confused I get. I also read that you should not elevate their food bowls, which I have always done because it seemed logical (a more comfortable eating position). Feeding raw is not an option so please let's stay away from that discussion. As far a dry kibble what are you feeding?
However, now I'm finding out it contains citric acid, which from what I am reading is thought to be a cause of bloat. The more I read the more confused I get. I also read that you should not elevate their food bowls, which I have always done because it seemed logical (a more comfortable eating position). Feeding raw is not an option so please let's stay away from that discussion. As far a dry kibble what are you feeding?
by wook00 on 13 December 2009 - 05:12
I have run the gamut of different dog foods with my dogs. I am currently feeding Wellness Core.
www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog_wellness_grain_index.html
The main reason I feed this is because it is grain free. I also like the fact that it has Glucosamine. This really seems to help with joint health. On a more practical note, each cup has more calories compared to other foods, thus less waste.
I have no experience with bloat but one of my German Shepherds eats lying down. I do have two others that eat while they stand with the food bowl below them. i have yet to have any problems. I also don't know of anyone in my schutzhund club that has run to it.
Let me know if i can help in any way.
Al
SchutzhundDogTraining.blogspot.com
www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog_wellness_grain_index.html
The main reason I feed this is because it is grain free. I also like the fact that it has Glucosamine. This really seems to help with joint health. On a more practical note, each cup has more calories compared to other foods, thus less waste.
I have no experience with bloat but one of my German Shepherds eats lying down. I do have two others that eat while they stand with the food bowl below them. i have yet to have any problems. I also don't know of anyone in my schutzhund club that has run to it.
Let me know if i can help in any way.
Al
SchutzhundDogTraining.blogspot.com
by Jackal73 on 13 December 2009 - 16:12
I feed Wellness Core too. Why would elevated bowls be logical? If a dog eats a prey item it bends over it unless it lies down to chew on it, so feeding off the ground makes sense. While all of the causes of bloat aren't clearly known, it makes sense that it happens with kibble given that it's a very dry processed food that expands and gives off gases when exposed to moisture (and the dog's digestive juices). One of the things I do to help prevent bloat (though it's not fool proof) is *not* feed out of a bowl. Aside from food that is worked for (i.e. out of the hand, or activity toys like Kongs) my dog eats his dinner out of an Omega Ball. It keeps him occupied, and he never eats more than a piece or two of kibble at a time. I also feed two meals during the day instead of one.
by missyfly96 on 14 December 2009 - 03:12
Does anybody know or have experience with a dog food that uses citric acid as a preservative being a cause of bloat?
Why would better quality foods like Fromm use it as a preservative if it could be contributor to bloat?
Why would better quality foods like Fromm use it as a preservative if it could be contributor to bloat?
by hodie on 14 December 2009 - 16:12
Look, there is a single study that suggested that citric acid might contribute to bloat. It is an ingredient used in both human and many other types of food and drink.
The fact is, I looked at the moon last night for ten minutes and I immediately got a headache. I bet it was looking at the moon that caused this headache. The analogy is this: just because something is associated with something else does NOT mean there is a CAUSE and EFFECT. This is what so many of you forget, in many instances.
I have fed hundreds of dogs food which had and did not have citric acid (used as a preservative help). In all the years of being around GSDs, I have had only two bloat. One was very, very old. I also know of people who have fed a given dog raw all its' life and it bloated, and others who fed foods with X, Y, and Z ingredients. The FACT is that NO ONE knows what really causes it, but one can assume that it is likely in part genetic, like just about everything else, short of injury.
The MOST important thing about bloat prevention is to use common sense in how your exercise and feed your dog and KNOW the signs so that if someday your dog should start to bloat you can seek immediate medical attention for the dog. Unless and until there are MANY peer reviewed studies based on proper scientific study protocols, we may never know the cause.
The fact is, I looked at the moon last night for ten minutes and I immediately got a headache. I bet it was looking at the moon that caused this headache. The analogy is this: just because something is associated with something else does NOT mean there is a CAUSE and EFFECT. This is what so many of you forget, in many instances.
I have fed hundreds of dogs food which had and did not have citric acid (used as a preservative help). In all the years of being around GSDs, I have had only two bloat. One was very, very old. I also know of people who have fed a given dog raw all its' life and it bloated, and others who fed foods with X, Y, and Z ingredients. The FACT is that NO ONE knows what really causes it, but one can assume that it is likely in part genetic, like just about everything else, short of injury.
The MOST important thing about bloat prevention is to use common sense in how your exercise and feed your dog and KNOW the signs so that if someday your dog should start to bloat you can seek immediate medical attention for the dog. Unless and until there are MANY peer reviewed studies based on proper scientific study protocols, we may never know the cause.
by ronin on 14 December 2009 - 21:12
by Prager on 15 December 2009 - 01:12
I am sure Hodie is going to scold me for this one.
Production of citric acid is not from citrus, but from corn these days. Its uses in food include flavoring, balancing of acid-alkalinity levels, as a preservative, as a firming agent and as an antibacterial agent. Consumers will find no reference to the presence of free glutamic acid on the labels of foods that contain "citric acid." However during that process the corn protein is hydrolyzed, resulting in free glutamic acid (MSG). MSG is a taste enhancer. If the food is dry, dog does not taste it as much. If it is wet dog tastes it much more and eats more and eats faster. Thus this may in some dogs lead to bloat.
You may tell me that it is not proved by scientific fact. But show me what is. Science can not even prove that there is no God, but some scientists will fight death with you, telling you that they know that there is none.
I love my dog and I know wolf is not eating citric acid . Wolf, (dog) was not created by Mother Gaia or God (wht ever you believe in) that way. So why to push the dog's luck?
I know that you say that feeding raw is not an option. Then cook some meat , pasta, rice, sea salt, blended raw vegetables. Kibble is also void of enzymes. It is a dead nutrition. Bad for dog, lowering longevity and suspect of cancer.
In response to Hodie:
Now I am going to look at moon and see if I'll get a headache. I'll let you know.:)
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
Production of citric acid is not from citrus, but from corn these days. Its uses in food include flavoring, balancing of acid-alkalinity levels, as a preservative, as a firming agent and as an antibacterial agent. Consumers will find no reference to the presence of free glutamic acid on the labels of foods that contain "citric acid." However during that process the corn protein is hydrolyzed, resulting in free glutamic acid (MSG). MSG is a taste enhancer. If the food is dry, dog does not taste it as much. If it is wet dog tastes it much more and eats more and eats faster. Thus this may in some dogs lead to bloat.
You may tell me that it is not proved by scientific fact. But show me what is. Science can not even prove that there is no God, but some scientists will fight death with you, telling you that they know that there is none.
I love my dog and I know wolf is not eating citric acid . Wolf, (dog) was not created by Mother Gaia or God (wht ever you believe in) that way. So why to push the dog's luck?
I know that you say that feeding raw is not an option. Then cook some meat , pasta, rice, sea salt, blended raw vegetables. Kibble is also void of enzymes. It is a dead nutrition. Bad for dog, lowering longevity and suspect of cancer.
In response to Hodie:
Now I am going to look at moon and see if I'll get a headache. I'll let you know.:)
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by hodie on 15 December 2009 - 01:12
Hans,
IF you get a headache looking at the moon, do let me know. LOL. And no, I am not going to scold you. I am simply pointing out that people want so badly to find a cause for everything in their lives, especially that which leads to negative outcomes, that they are willing to look at anything as the reason, even when there is little or no evidence. In doing so, we often completely overlook the real culprit.
As for science trying to prove there is or is not a God, I don't think most scientists try to prove that at all. Rather, they are trying to prove many other things and sometimes they succeed and sometimes they fail.
As for the way citric acid is produced today, in most cases it is from fermentation of Aspergillus niger. Corn is sometimes used as the stock for the sugars the bacteria need to thrive, but not always. By the way, all living things that oxidize fat, carbs or proteins to carbon dioxide and water already produce citric acid in their body. The citric acid is part of a series of metabolic reactions leading to energy being derived from the food ingested.
IF it were the cause of bloat, then many more dogs who ate dog foods and other foods that include it as an ingredient would likely have trouble. The fact that they do not likely demonstrates that it is NOT the cause, probably not the primary cause anyway, and again, I suspect that research will eventually show that there must be a genetic predisposition to gastric torsion.
Now Hans, be careful at how long you spend looking at the moon. LOL I am sure you have better things to do.
Cheers!
IF you get a headache looking at the moon, do let me know. LOL. And no, I am not going to scold you. I am simply pointing out that people want so badly to find a cause for everything in their lives, especially that which leads to negative outcomes, that they are willing to look at anything as the reason, even when there is little or no evidence. In doing so, we often completely overlook the real culprit.
As for science trying to prove there is or is not a God, I don't think most scientists try to prove that at all. Rather, they are trying to prove many other things and sometimes they succeed and sometimes they fail.
As for the way citric acid is produced today, in most cases it is from fermentation of Aspergillus niger. Corn is sometimes used as the stock for the sugars the bacteria need to thrive, but not always. By the way, all living things that oxidize fat, carbs or proteins to carbon dioxide and water already produce citric acid in their body. The citric acid is part of a series of metabolic reactions leading to energy being derived from the food ingested.
IF it were the cause of bloat, then many more dogs who ate dog foods and other foods that include it as an ingredient would likely have trouble. The fact that they do not likely demonstrates that it is NOT the cause, probably not the primary cause anyway, and again, I suspect that research will eventually show that there must be a genetic predisposition to gastric torsion.
Now Hans, be careful at how long you spend looking at the moon. LOL I am sure you have better things to do.
Cheers!
by Prager on 15 December 2009 - 02:12
The problem with science is that it reverses itself ALL THE TIME.
I have been educated in natural science , geology, hydro geology, geophysics and engineering geology at Charles's University in Prague. The longest operating university without interruptions on the world. And I have learned that in science there is no proof or evidence which will not be reversed or changed sooner or later. That is why I rather clean dog shit, breed dogs and trust my gut,....and heart.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
I have been educated in natural science , geology, hydro geology, geophysics and engineering geology at Charles's University in Prague. The longest operating university without interruptions on the world. And I have learned that in science there is no proof or evidence which will not be reversed or changed sooner or later. That is why I rather clean dog shit, breed dogs and trust my gut,....and heart.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by Ruger1 on 21 October 2010 - 05:10
Prager,,,good comment....
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