Is this a German Shepherd? - Page 1

This is my pup, Phantom.  He has an interesting little story...he was at a German Shepherd Rescue as a turn-in from a backyard breeder.  I do work for the rescue on and off, as I work as a behavioralist.  When I took Phantom I informed them of my decision not to alter him, and in doing so they refused to give me his "AKC Papers"  -- now, I'm not sure if there ARE any AKC papers, if there ever were, etc.  If there are, obviously he's full GSD.

But I don't have them, so I can't prove it.  Anyway.

 

Here are some various pictures of him from 8 weeks to 7 months old.

BELOW:   6 months old @ 69lbs



Below: 3-4 months old, 25-35lbs



Same age as above.  Ears finally beginning to stand.



Below: 5 months old @ 50+ lbs




BELOW: Same as above.



Below: 6 months old @ 69lbs




8 weeks old.







Now he LOOKS like a German Shepherd, right?  Right.  And he's built like a German Shepherd and does things like a GSD.  He trots and has a long extended gait like Shepherds, has a normal coarse overcoat, normal markings, normal dark eye color, standing ears, big bones, etc, etc.  AND, he excells at Schutzhund; going for his BH shortly.


Anyway, here's the thing -- he has a curly tail.  His tail may hang down normally if he's just standing still, but other times he carries it erect, and wags it in a curl voer his back, like a Husky.  He has a little bit of anxiety issues (which IMO, stems from nerves/bad breeding) but could also be a trait from a husky pup, as they're a very anxious breed, as a rule.

I was curious if he could possibly be a Husky mix, as the coloration on his paws remains very light, almost silver but dark enough to be considered brown.  His conformation is *perfect* GSD, just the tail is throwing me off.  Plus, he's huge (about 70lbs at 7 months old) and Huskies are very small.




Anybody have experience with PURE German Shepherds who had a curly tail?  Or is my dog a mixie?  Either way it doesn't make a difference to me -- my other dog (the maltese yorkie in one of the pictures) is a mix.  I'm just curious.

He looks like a German Shepherd of the American showline variety. Curly tail,sometimes called "gay tail" is present from time to time.

doubt he is husky.  looks purebred and probably just has an incorrect tail.  doesn't mean he isn't pure bred, and papers don't mean he's pure bred either.

you say he has anxiety issues (you say nerves/bad breeding),  but then you say he excells at schutzhund.  doesn't make since.  schutzhund is suppsoed to weed out the dogs with poor nerves.  I probably wouldn't say he excells at schutzhund, after making the other comments.

Why did you choose not to alter him?  if he has nerve issues or bad breeding then nueter him.  you work for rescue, you have seen all the excess gsd out there,  why not nueter your dog,  he is not breeding potential

He looks American to me, too.  Save for the straight topline and broader head (he's looking a bit more like a dog now, not so much a lanky pup) just his tail curls all the way over his back sometimes.  I mean he looks like an Akita/Husky/etc.  Spitzy.

He excells very well in the work we've started him with in Schutzhund, and he's very calm and well-rounded, generally speaking.  Very forward dog with a confident carriage and so on.  Overall, he looks like an excellent dog when we're around the ring.  I've done Schutzhudn before -- this isn't my first Shepherd, so I think when I say anxiety I may be a bit misleading in that he's just not AS well rounded as my previous Shepherds.  Keeping in mind he's also 7 months old.


I don't work for a rescue, they call me when they have dogs they can't handle, need immediate help with to be adopted out, et cetera.  You don't alter working dogs, as a rule of thumb.  It has a lot to do with the way they grow and how fight drive is developed in the future.  Testosterone production filters DIRECTLY into ability in protection (not Schutzhund, protection, Schutzhund just...'evens them out.')

I have no intention of breeding him.  I was aware he wasn't breeding quality the day he went to a *rescue.*  In this case, him not being altered is strictly behavioural.

He looks like a pure German shepherd to me too.  What you're describing could just be a combination of an incorrect tail and an excited young dog who is signaling that in an over the top way.  You'll see that amongst dogs and wolves sometimes, where the dog will hoist the tail and drop it over the back (looking like a spitz tail though the dog's tail isn't shaped like that otherwise).  It shows excitement a desire to be in charge of a situation, and will cause other dogs to veer off.

That's what I was thinking, I've just never personally seen it in German Shepherds unless they were mixed with something.  Most of the time, his tail is curled when he's trying to be in charge of the other dogs at the place, and then from there it's straight out (think, Golden Retriever/Gordon Setter/etc.) and when he's standing still, hangs down very normally.

At Schutzhund club they call him the Riddler, because of his "question mark tail." lol.

I'm just curious how common the trait is and what causes it.  My assumption would be its either a gene that skips a few generations (e.g. straight-tail parents have a pup with a curled tail) or one of the parents had the curled tail.)  It doesn't bother me in the slightest; he's a fantastic dog in all other regards and I'm very happy with his progress for his age range.  Just trying to figure out what I'm dealing with. ;)

 I've actually never seen that before in a German shepherd either, but wolves do it, and weirdly enough I saw it very commonly with a golden retriever in my neighborhood. The dog was young, male, intact, and completely unsocialized, and would signal to other dogs like that all the time.  The nearest analogy to the position I can come up with (since google is failing to produce a picture) is of a female flagging her tail at a male to mount i.e. the tail is straight except where it's raised and kinked over the back.  The gesture is most certainly not an invitation, though. :D

www.pedigreedatabase.com/userfiles/tail.jpg   <- That is about as close as I come, personally.  Except his tail is a bit longer, so it'll flip over his back on and off.

I recognize the tail-up position in behaviour (e.g. aggression, "fight stance" etc.)  it's just that he carries his tail like this 70% of the time.  The only time I see it down is if he's incredibly bored, nothing is going on, or he's tired haha.

 Yes, though that's not nearly as extreme as the position I was thinking of.  He's got what I understand is called a "gay tail" (though I might be wrong on that score, and google isn't helping my attempts at checking) and he's excitable so he's particularly showy about it. My guy does something similar, just not so high, and only when he's really fired up about something (such as checking on "intruders in the territory").  It's obviously related to the "exclamation mark" tail that a lot of dogs use to signal aggression, but isn't quite the same thing.  My previous dog (also a GSD) would get a pronounced "kink" in his tail when he was excited/working (changing it from a relaxed J shape to a reversed L), so I can see where the posture your boy is using is just a combination and exaggeration of the two.