Difference between Schutzund and Personal Protection Training? - Page 1

Does anyone want to discuss the differences between the two?

Hope this will turn to an educational thread, trainers are requested to comment with as much details as possible , please.
Ibrahim

People can write "novels" about the diference! I know of dogs that do both.. no difference for them. I like to do it all with my dogs if they can handle it! They must  have the drives and temperament.
Then I know of dogs that are pretty on a Schutzhund field, those are the prey monsters. Those are the ones I don't care much about.
There are people who will not push a dog and put more "thread" into the work. These dogs sometimes have those funny barks, usually nice, fast bites but no fight.. they kinda hop with the helper and those are the dogs that look pretty but no intensity. Some of these could do better some of them couldn't. It all depends on a dog..


There should not be diference.. unfortunatelly there is!
I am not going any further on this topic because I know of a nice Show dog that can do better but the trainers will not allow that...... the reason is unknown to me.
 And so it goes.....
Pack

 I have both. The protection trained dogs besides the expected outing on command, and attacking on command, similar to schutzund, are taught to bite the whole body thru the use of a full body suit, attack out of an automobile, search my home  if I suspect something amiss when we come home, be alert for dangers, attack the arm where the weapon is, attack if family is attacked, etc.

workingdogforum.com has really good discussions of this topic in "personal protection dogs", but you have to create an account to read them, i think.

(This is very over symplistic so realize I  know that)

In a sentence... The Schutzhund dog focus is on the sleeve the personal protection dog is focused on the threat.  Beyond that  a PPD doesn't need competitive obedience, retreving, jumps etc... doesn't need tracking... the Schutzhund dog is more rounded andis being  tested for breed worthyness.

One of the best PPD's I met was a small bitch who hated sleeves!  When presented with a threat she regularily ducked under the arm ( which she'd learned was padded and didn't stop the aggressor) and nabbed the attacker in the knee.  She did exactly that when her owner was mugged by an idiot who was stupid enough to attack when the dude had a GSD.  She then outed smartly and watched til the police arrived.  

Not all Schutzhund dogs are trained to focus on the sleeve. That is from people unfamiliar with the difference between Schutzhund and sport training. Mine as well as many others are trained to focus on the man and taught the sleeve is just a path to the man.  

I agree Bob...  many are not sleeve happy.  And ^5's to their trainers for presenting a more complete dog.  The PPD who ducked the sleeve to get beyond it though would not have made a good Schutzhund dog, though she was excellent in PPD.  The other part as I mentioned is that the Schutzhund dog has much more extensive training in areas OTHER THAN the bite work to qualify.  Hildy didn't give a fig for a straight sit... LOL.  I guess what I meant is that PPD's aren't looking for any style points in their methods. It's the end goal that drives them.

This thread has the potential to get ugly because the waters can be muddied so well.

A dog trained in pure "sport" work may or may not actually protect the owner in the face of a real threat.  In fact, the owner of pattern-trained "SchH" dog would be well advised not to trust life and limb to such an animal.

I would gander that "most" sport dogs would NOT protect their owners in a real life situation, if for no other reason than they have not had the foundation work and training from a truly gifted training helper to develop the dog properly.

SchH, in and of itself, is a choreographed routine, with 100% completely predictable scenarios.  I have personally seen *coward* dogs pass a SchH trial because they have been habituated to the routine.

Some sport dogs are capable of PPD work.  A critical mistake is to ASS-U-ME that all SchH "protection" dogs would actually protect.

To further muddy the waters, a whole lot of "personal protection" dogs for sale on the internet are not worth the paper their pedigrees are printed on.  There is no national certifying agency for PPD.  There is no "stamp of approval", and there probably never will be.  Just about any Slick Joe with a sexy web site and inflated dog prices can claim to have an Executive Level Protection Dog. 

Unfortunately Americans often mistake price for value and will open their wallets far too wide when looking for "personal protection".  Some of these trainers are legit, but many just prey on the emotions of the buyer... "Here's a photo of your only daughter... here's a photo of your beloved daugter getting sodomized by freaks... here's a photo of your Executive Level Protection Dog defending your precious daughter from her assailants..."

To make a long story even longer, there is a LOT of difference between SchH and PPD training, if done right, and only a slim percentage of the "Master Trainers" on the internet advertising PPD's really can do the full monty.