Kidney problem? - Page 1

Hi everyone  

I was hopiing for a little advice please

We have a 9 month gsd - he was ill and very underweight at 8 weeks when we got him, and was treated for suspected giardia. This seemed to help and he started to do a lot better. However, although he has filled out a little in the time he has been with us, he is still underweight (not to the extent he was). He also doesn't have a great appetite but is not lacking in energy at all.
I took him along to the vets last week to have bloods taken as I would have expected him to 'catch up' with his weight by now and the lack of appetite at times, does worry me also. Although we are still waiting on some results, what we do have  rule out EPI but point more towards a problem with his kidneys.

His urea, phosphorous and monocyte levels are raised above normal. Creatinine levels are normal. We are also having his urine sample tested (urine is really quite dark) - results aren't through yet.

Obviously I am worried about him having trouble with his kidneys - I believe that raised monocyte levels could indicate tissue damage - could anyone more knowledgeable than I please shed any light on what this could be and what we should be looking for.

Thanks so much

What is he eating ?? Is it possible its too high protien ? Canned food, raw, kibble etc.. what else is he chewing on eating ?

Hi Kimmelaot

He has been on Arden grange dry complete large breed puppy food. We very briefly tried him on Orijen puppy food which is very high protein (this was months ago) - but it seemed clear that despite trying to change him over very gradually, it wasn't for him.

Due to his lack of appetite recently he is now eating Chappie - he won't entertain the Arden Grange at all so I'm happy to see him eating his food even if it is Chappie..... I'm definately open to suggestions 

What did the results show from other test ? Remember there is a range to all values with each breed.
Always,
Cee

ronnie1, what was he treated with for giardia, and has he been on any other medications?  also, does he drink a lot of water, or not much?

Hi

Cee
- we haven't had any more results through yet ....still waiting on some blood results and also urinanalysis & culture results - vet has also mentioned maybe doing an ultrasound.

uvw
- we treated him with panacur and also metronidazole. He was treated again a few weeks ago with panacur as whilst I was away for a few days he had diarrhoea - the panacur seemed to solve the problem - the vet has said that giardia could have been the cause as it can lie dormant - as it's opportunistic it could have occured secondary to something else - stress could also have been a factor.
He isn't drinking excessively - his water intake seems normal however he does seem to be urinating a lot more just recently.

The vet has put him on nisamox antibiotic tablets for now.

I know I don't have much info to go off at the moment and I'm sure when the rest of the results come through the vet will be able to pinpoint the cause  ...... it's just so worrying

not to alarm you, but something to ask your vet about.

nisamox:

"Do not use in animals with serious dysfunction of the kidneys accompanied by anuria and oliguria

i don't know anything about nisamox, but this is just something that came up when i looked it up.  also not sure how serious of a kidney disfunction your pup has, or if it would even affect him.

also this:

"Metronidazole should not be used in young puppies and kittens.  Metronidazole should be avoided or used with caution, at reduced doses, in animals with kidney or liver disease."

are phosphorus levels normally higher in a pup?  or is his phosphorus significantly higher?  is your vet also looking into vitamin D toxicity and hypoparathyroidism?  

if it is a kidney problem, you will need to put him on a diet that is very digestible...also lower in phosphorus and probably protein. 

(i'm not a vet, just some things i came across.  there are many vet techs on this board.  if someone could chime in that would be great)

good luck ronnie, keep us posted

If treatment  with Flagyl and Panacure helped before and then it came back than I would suspect giardia or coccidia. Giardia is a tough bug to get rid off and the medications do not take care of the the cysts. Thus you will kill the protozoa but not its cysts and they then hatch later after treatment and symptoms come back. Also do not eliminate the possibility that the pup is getting reinfested by Giardia or other microbes like coccidia. Eliminate first : Salmonella and Campylobacter.  If he eats dog food outside or drinks there, then the birds , cats and rodents may contaminate the food or water. Also puddles around the place where dog plays may be the source.
Giardia is and its spores are sometimes hard to find under the microscope and during other visual tests. Thus you should perform Giardia ELISA assay. Various tests are used, including direct smear (with or without a fixative stain), fecal flotation via centrifugation, fecal ELISA, and direct fluorescent antibody assay.
read here:
http://www.capcvet.org/recommendations/giardia.html

when I treat this then
I use combination of Flagyl with sulfa for 2 weeks and repeat it after 2 weeks again and then maybe again and again. Cysts may survive in dirt for weeks. Thus this is a persistent and tough bug to get rid of. 
 
For cleaning of the area I first use antibacterial soap and then bleach.
 I would not panic about kidneys and so on. Rule number one: ALWAYS FIRST ELIMINATE THE FIRST MOST OBVIOUS AND CHEAPEST POSSIBLE PROBLEM .  Then and only then look into esoteric and exotic possibilities. 
 I have fond good website on this :
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/giardia.html


Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

Hi everyone,

my apologies for the delay in responding - thank you for your suggestions and advice, they're much appreciated.

We got the remainder of the test results through today - everything else is normal (blood and urine results) which is a relief.

We still don't know why he has a lack of appetite though.   The vet has said that the abnormal blood results we got can be caused by starvation  - it is not uncommon for Murphy to sniff his food and then walk away from it so this is quite possible - I don't believe he consumes enough to put on the extra weight (at the moment it seems that every second day he eats very very little - he doesn't eat excessively on other days - just the normal minimum amount for a dog his weight). For now, the vet has recommended that we switch him to Hills z/d food as it's hypoallergenic and easier to digest, and see if this helps ...... just hope he'll eat it 

Prager, can I ask - in your experience does giardia cause a lack of appetite? ....   his stools are normal at the moment and apart from the episode whilst I was away, they usually are. He has lots of energy and a good shiny coat - to look at him front on he looks healthy he's just very very narrow around his abdomen (I realise that lean is good but this is a little too much).
- we blocked off the grassy area of the garden for a couple of months when he was first ill with suspected giardia - it might be worth doing the same again.

He isn't dreadfully ill at all...  it's just a little confusing why things are not quite right. To give you some idea, he's getting on for 10 months now and weighs almost 29kg. He's not a small gsd so he's a few kilos under what he should be. .... just two other things which I didn't think to mention before - sometimes I notice that he stands a little hunched up also he does get 'blood shot' eyes (they're not like this constantly) .... not sure how significant these factors are?

...well for now the vet has said we should just put him onto the new food and monitor him

...here he is -