Fav US working line breeders - Page 1

Who are yur fav working line breeders and/or importers of GSD working lines in the U.S. and why? (pls do not include show lines). OR which ones do you know that breed a litter or two a year and have and can place dogs in serious working homes for sport (vs mainly breeds for pet market)? Or which ones have you found on the internet that you think are worth looking into?

In otherwords, if you were a relative newbie and wanted to go looking to buy a serious dog for schutzhund or ring sport, where would you start looking? Do you think it makes a difference if you have titled a dog yourself when you go to a breeder/trainer and start asking for a serious sport puppy or young dog? Is there someone you would trust to ask their opinion about the dog/breeder you found? Do you think your local club/sport people are biased about who they refer you to? Would you recommend someone be around the sport/ work w/ their current dog, for how long, before seeking that serious new dog? Does there come a point where you will ever know enough to find the right person to buy the dog from? Or is it a matter of $$ and going to the "top breeder"? I've heard people will go thru several dogs before finding the right one anyways. Wouldn't it certainly help to get the best you can buy if you are a relative newbie to the sport and have not raised a working puppy before? Would you trust someone who raises MANY litters of pups a year?

just some thoughts. thanks!

Check out this thread. Instead of looking for the breeder, look for the dog, let their merits stand for themselves. Also the female is every bit as important as a top male. If you want a serious working dog, look at the top 10 in both the BSP and WUSA championships. Do your research. To be honest I looked in the US and ended up importing from Germany. Bosco von der Hagenmühle was the male I got my pup out of, great producer, great lines.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/forum/45629.html

Here are some names:

Javir vom Talka Marda  - Has bred in US
Bosco von der Hagenmühle - not sure
Erri z Blatenskeho zamku CS - Has bred in US
Hoss aus der Zigeunerkuhle - Has bred in US
Ozzie Barnero  - not sure
Opal Röderburg - not sure

BSP

http://www.working-dog.eu/meistersch_anz_jahr.php?tID=7&tName=SV+Bundessiegerpr%FCfung

WUSV

http://www.working-dog.eu/meistersch_anz_jahr.php?tID=16&tName=WUSV+world+championship


pcw

To the second poster:

Ozzie Barnero is in USA, Texas with his current owner Josef Mravik of Eurosport K9. Last seen by me at a club trial here in Texas in February.

Opal was in Holland a few months ago at Tiekerhook kennels being used as stud.

Now, original poster, you asked a lor of "general" questions, and Ill offer my comments Remember, I am a dumbass and talk over the internet is cheap. You have to do your research, schutzhund and research takes time.

OR which ones do you know that breed a litter or two a year and have and can place dogs in serious working homes for sport (vs mainly breeds for pet market)? ---- I don't know who breeds 10 or 1 or 2 littes a year. BUt, if you want a dog or a puppy for a serious working home, check sportwaffen k9, vanmeerhout, ajay singh, zwinger patiala has a very famous Talk Marda female from world famous J litter, Sue DiCero and Gabor Szhilasi in Tennessee also and so on and so on, lots of research ahead of you.

Or which ones have you found on the internet that you think are worth looking into? - Do internet initially only, as research. Then, email. Then phone. Then, in person, if at all possible.

In otherwords, if you were a relative newbie and wanted to go looking to buy a serious dog for schutzhund or ring sport, where would you start looking? === See above.

Do you think it makes a difference if you have titled a dog yourself when you go to a breeder/trainer and start asking for a serious sport puppy or young dog? --- Do YOU think if makes a difference? I have no idea what your skill level is, can you read dogs, can you commit for years of training almost daily, do this and do that, maybe you are the next Ivan Balabanov in the making and starting out, maybe you don't know shit and will ruin a puppy within a few months, I have no idea, so the question is too general to give a cohesive answer.

Is there someone you would trust to ask their opinion about the dog/breeder you found? Plenty of people with no marbles in their pockets. Again, question is too general. Are there people THAT I would trust on word alone and be satisfied with their recommendation no matter if I like it or not? Yes. But, that's me and my situation, you are asking strangers on the internet to do that for you, which is unrealistic.

Do you think your local club/sport people are biased about who they refer you to? -- Why would they be? They got no horse in that race. Or do they? I don't know, I can't fully comprehend the question, why would they have an agenda"?

Would you recommend someone be around the sport/ work w/ their current dog, for how long, before seeking that serious new dog? -- All this theoretical crap we are typing here would be answered if you go to a schutzhund club, and observe, talk to the trainers, owners, handlers etc...

Does there come a point where you will ever know enough to find the right person to buy the dog from? -- I don't know, hat d you think, we are not Miss Cleo here. You cant go through life without trusting nobody, but again, you can easily get burned. So, use your spidey sense, alot of good, honest breeders won't even respond to somebody wanting to buy a puppy if they think that person shouldn't have one of their puppies. It goes both ways, that trust is a funny thing.

Or is it a matter of $$ and going to the "top breeder"? --- Again, I don't have a Magic 8 ball to asnwer that. Maybe, yes, maybe  no, could be, possibly, it doesn;'thave to be etc... Money, like color od the dog should be DEAD last on your list. You should expect to pay between 1000$ to 1800$ for a puppy no matter who sells it to you. Now, do research into who should you buy it from. It takes years (or decades) to gain comprehensive knowledge about things you are as

Hi, it doesn't hurt to get as many breeder references as possible from various sources, such as here, working dog clubs, trainers, etc. Also, it is always wise to go visit the breeder you wish to work with & purchase a working puppy from in the future. Sometimes it's worth the airfare to do so. If that is not an option, most breeders can get you in touch with a former puppy purchaser relatively close in your area so you can evaluate the dog.
You can also request video clips of the young puppy playing with a ball & tug. If the breeder has not titled the dogs themselves, then look more into a repeat breeding so they can more easily predict the out come.

Since you are a novice should look for dogs that are handler focus, willing to please, ball + food motivated, offspring that seem like natural trackers, & retrievers. This will make it a lot easier for you to start off with, than a more challenging dog to train. You'll have to decide if you want a dog with higher prey drive or more balanced drives also, when you contact the breeders. But your dog does need enough drive to want to work for the ball / tug.

I would highly recommend these breeders in the USA:

Van Den Heuvel K9 - http://www.vandenheuvelk9.com/
I've purchased 1 dog from them over 2 years ago. They are wonderful at matching exactly what you want in a puppy's temperament, drives, with your life style & capabilities.
My 2 year old female was everything they said she would be. She is the angel in our eyes. At 8 weeks old she was use to normal house hold sounds, well socialized, clean, already new basic puppy tracking & how to sit.
All 3 phases of SCH came so easy to her, she is wonderful with children of all ages, other animals, & in any surroundings. Her temperament is stable enough to train for SCH, do therapy work, & starting SAR training too.
I became very ill while she was a older puppy, so was cared for by my well intention family member. Who quickly began to harshly correct / scold her for biting anything, untrain most of her obedience, & didn't do tracking for over a year. Our poor girl was kept isolated in my family's home, never taken out or played with either. Most dogs would have been ruined by this experience, but not her. She did a perfect track the first day home, then a beautiful full mouth calm bite with her first helper a few weeks later. Her obedience was flawless with in 3 months & knew the entire BH routine. She is everything we hope for & more. I've had trainers & police officers offer to buy her after watching / working with her. Van Den Heuvel has world renowned top stud dogs & females from legendary working / sport dogs. They tend to produce high drive puppies great for sport, any nose work, & SAR.

Alpine K9 - http://www.alpinek9.com/
The breeder is knowledgeable, also wonderful to work with & can trust. He works with the famous Jinopo Kennels - http://www.jinopo.cz/main.php?lg=
I've reserved a puppy with them, so can't say anything about the dog yet. But they know their stuff so sure the puppy will be exactly as described.
They strive to breed dogs that will preserve the original versatile working GSD, so most will have more balanced drives not unless otherwise stated by their description.
I did purchase a dog from their lines through another source than Alpine / Jinopo kennels. She too has a wonderful loving temperament, very smart, more independent with balance drives.
Her protection is much more real in work & toward her property. We have started her in herding & SCH, but going to pursue more the herding route for her. She seems to prefer problem solving on her own in herding, than repeating obedience behaviors for SCH. We could easily continue with SCH with her, but I don't mind doing something different with her either. She too is a natural tracker,

you are asking.

I've heard people will go thru several dogs before finding the right one anyways. -- have haeard that too, so it must be true. DO you want to be one of them? Be dilligent and do your research, so when you roll the dice, maybe you win. Maybe you don't, but you roll it a few more times, then you score. Impossible to tell for sure.

Wouldn't it certainly help to get the best you can buy if you are a relative newbie to the sport and have not raised a working puppy before? --- Again. NOthing is certain when it comes to puppies, you can just do a lot of research and hope for the best. If it works out - great, mission accomplished. If it doesn't, consolation is that you did your utmost to make sure ou succeed, but something happens. We cannot control everything in out lives and around us, but we can damn sure try to influence it. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't, but there is always another day.

YOu should be asking a competent breeder all these questions and listen and dissect all the answers.

Also, regarding "get the best you can buy"? Define best? Also, be very careful what you ask for, you have to make sure you can stand the heat if you want to hang around in the kitchen and want the ABSOLUTE BEST OF THE BEST working dog... Just off top of my head, a few questions you should be asking yourself, and always be honest with yourself, for sometimes peole can get a bit unrealistic and try to bite more than they can chew, then they choke on it. A puppy is unique, every single one of them, even in the same litter, they are all unique and different. A dog is not a Honda Accord and it is not a Totoya Prius, so you can get one of those from any damn dealership you wish, it's the exact same thing. Every single puppy is a unique even that happened o nly one due to biology and nature NEVER to be repeated again. Make sure you pick one that suits you and you suit him/her.

Now, about being honest with yourself thing again... Do you think you can go track with your dog 4 or 5 times a week EVERY week at 5 Am at the crack of dawn, even it's cold, raining, myggy, moisty, snowing etc... What would you do if your puppy who was cuddly/wuddly starts growling at you at 14 months of age when you come near his food bowl while he is eating? What would you do if your dog lunges and tries to bite another dog while you are walking him in the park? 

What would you do when you are dead tired, long day at work and you come home, open a beer and want to watch some football, and "that damn dog" is going stir crazy, chewing everything in sight, whinning, barking, pawing at the crate and wanting to go for his walk? What would you do if that happens DAILY? Remember, you wanted "the best" and the best working dogs have so much drive THEY HAVE TO do something and kep themselves busy. Can you privude that outlet for him ALL the time? Maybe the dog will need it, maybe it won't, what if it does?

What would you do, if you try to give your dog a leash correction while it's forging ahead and he turns around and tries to bite you? Or he growls at neignbor's kids playing outside in the yard? Or chases a small girl on a bike? Or tries to mount you and hump you when he turns 18 months? Or chews up your Tony Lama booth cause he got bored one day and that's what's available on the menu?

This is just crap off top of my head, maybe the dog will do none of these things, maybe it wil do them all, maybe just soem of them, I have no way of knowling, but just some fod for thoughts, German Shepherds are active, intelligent THINKING dogs and they are a lifelong commitment. All this bitework, dumbells, tracking, obedience, sleeves stuffed in dog's faces, flying on the long attack, it's all so way fucking cool now when you see it on youtube, but can you devote 3 to 4 years or

All this bitework, dumbells, tracking, obedience, sleeves stuffed in dog's faces, flying on the long attack, it's all so way fucking cool now when you see it on youtube, but can you devote 3 to 4 years or more of your time almost daily to that dog?


Would you trust someone who raises MANY litters of pups a year? -- Again, WOULD I? Yes,depending who it is, would you - I don't know, I can't answer that for you.

All this novel I typed could be summed up in one sentence. Research and more research. I am a total stranger to you, maybe I don;t know shit, maybe I kno just enough to be dangerous, maybe I am a keyboard commando, maybe I am an expert, maybe I am none of those things, but just some weirdo copying and pasting some shit that I googled trying to be smart and "aswring" with authority, you simply cannot know these things. With research, going to schutzhund club, talking to people, listening to what they say, digesting what they say, asking somebody else and verifying, asking a lot of "Whys" will get you onthe right road.

Best of luck.

Hey Skyhorse, Wa'sup?

Like the wise men say, "There are no stupid question."

I am 54 years old and got my first GSD in 1975.  Making a long story short, I am still a relative novice with regards to the breed in all of it's varities and forms.  I do not have any idea what your level of knowledge and experience with the breed is, and given my own very limited knowledge I am sure not able to give sound advise.   Adi Ibrahimbegovic has gone to the trouble to expend quite a bit of energy to provide you with some things you need to give a lot of serious thought to whilst considering getting a dog.  Please read his thoughts again very carefully because he is speaking truthfully.  There is an amazing amount of INFORMATION and MISINFORMATION, available on the internet to help you along your way, but you must take the time and make the effort to sort it all out.  Truely a very large undertaking that is not easily, if ever, accomplished.  A similar question was posed recently at this forum see it here:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/forum/40679.html

Short but sweet with some pretty poignant response.  Food for thought.

Peace Out,


Steve Schuler
Oklahoma USA