The Kennel Club "ABS" should carry a Health "WARNING" - Page 3

Actually David, my comments appear only on the first 4 pages, ending when I had said what I needed to say. I see that others on blog didn't agree with you either, and some of the other 'usual suspects' did. That is what it is meant to be about - an exchange of views!  It isn't a crime when someone doesn't agree with you.

By the way, please note that when I posted on the blog, I used my name freely and openly.

Missbeeb
Hi. I hadn't intended to post on this thread either - and look what happened LOL.  I don't agree with you here - most accredited breeders do health test, and if puppy buyers go to them I think it's better than going to a pet shop or backyard breeder who don't. Also, as I mentioned earlier, the page on the KC website also suggests that they contact breed clubs, which is excellent advice.

No, you're right it has no teeth, and it must change this, and introduce mandatory health testing. I can appreciate though, how with the size of this organisation it cannot just happen overnight.  The KC must be looking at this and considering what to do about it I'm sure.

The KC balance their books and measure their success on the amount of registrations they process during any one year. This is their main source of income . Quoted in Our Dogs when comparing the registrations of our breed the German Shepherd Dog which they say is in decline they boasted a 15% increase overall for all breeds. These registrations without a doubt are a result of a flawed ABS which assures the general public all is well should you purchase from any breeder who holds an ABS certificate. If we carry out all the health checks on our breed and promote this for the future, bringing with it the attention it deserves from the media and the general public watch the registrations decline then as people will begin to wise up and those who do not carry out the breed related tests will not be able to sell their puppies. The result a fall in registrations and the KC are aware of this. This why we should continue to make everyone aware of this KC money machine which has nothing whatsoever to do with the Health of Pedigree dogs.

Dingodog, I absolutely see where you are coming from and guess with the best of intentions but your argument is fundamentally flawed and for the very reasons stated by Missbeeb.
The KC ABS , this is as I see it. In principle this was an excellent idea and the KC could easily have made it work to the best advantage of both dog and owner. However their ever blinded vision to include everyone into everything regardless of the monumental differences between them , lumping Puppy farmer and Caring Breeder into the same catagory is simply unworkable and if an idea can lead to a lunatic running the asylum then it was this one.
It could all have been so idealistically simple, i.e in order to be a KC ABS breeder you had to be one of the elite, a breeder who did ALL the necessary Health Checks as recommended by the Specialised Breed Clubs for that breed. Then the General Public really would have had the security of knowing a KC ABS breeder meant that, not only had Mandatory Health Checks been perfomed on all breeding stock but successful pass results had been achieved.
Last year at a BC Meeting held on 25th July 09 the GSD Breed Clubs unanimously passed a proposal that would work perfectly within the existing KC ABS whereby litters from BC Surveyed parents (those having obtained mandatory health checks) should be awarded more recognition within the KC ABS scheme by the issuing of a Special Purple Pedigree. The KC had sent two Representatives to this meeting, Bill Lambert (ABS Manager), and Geoff Sampson (KC Vet), both believed the proposals put forward for integration to the KC ABS were excellent and certainly workable. To this day the KC havent even had the decency to acknowledge these 'Power Point' Documented proposals,  verbally or otherwise.
I am the Secretary of the Breed Club that came up with and submitted these proposals to the BC Agenda, much of my time and effort was put into them. Not for self promotion, financial gain or any other sinister idea you might suggest, but simply because I love the breed and also believed the Public had a right to expect better from the KC and what its ABS was offering. .
By totally ignoring these proposals, even the decency to respond with a NO would have been something, the KC proved to me that the ABS was just a thinly veiled smoke screen in that it was once again more about money than it was about Health. In other words they would not risk having to turn anyone away who was prepared to pay the initial joining and annual renewal fee. As long as these people were prepared to pay up all they needed to do was to say they would THINK about these Health suggestions and they could legally advertise the fact they were a KC ABS breeder without doing anything. Well for me Dingodog that just aint good enough and no way did I want to be lumped in along with the puppy farmers, back street breeder or first time pet breeder all of whom were doing nothing much except paying the KC their ABS subscription.
Regards
Sue b

Katrina: You should continue learning about the "correct international GSD" and I would advise you to learn about the SV and the WUSV - their history and the dedication to our breed. I would then suggest that you compare your current knowledge and experience of our "correct GSD" with many who are SV Judges, SV Kormeisters, SV National Breed Wardens, British GSD Championship Show Judges and British GSD Breed Surveyors. Then you may find the humility to place your own knowledge and experience of our "correct international GSD" into some realistic perspective.

I would suggest you go and vastly improve your knowledge and experience of our GSD or stop making uninformed comments and assertions, not withstanding your self indulgent assumptions.


Interested in buying a GSD Puppy - read this article FIRST

http://www.videxgsd.com/gsd_is_under_threat.htm

I can empathize with Dingodog, and actually agree on a couple of points, yes we do need to be careful where the SV  is leading us, after all it's the top VA animals with their greater use at stud that have perpetuated the now commonplace  over angulated dogs that we are now seeing at most of the shows in Germany, along with the soft ears, as well as soft temperaments, in my own opinion Doctor Rummel would be shaking his head in disbelief now, never mind Von Stephanitz, BUT,and this is one hell of a BUT, the SV system, and the way that we in Britain are trying to carry it forward, is a million times better than the " BREAKING EGGS WITH BIG STICKS" mentality that is currently being used against us by the KC, and their wish to force the "ALSATIAN " upon not only us, but also the poor unsuspecting general public, who lets be honest about it, buy most of our stock.
  The onus is now on the Breeders here to sort out the problems, but we need encouragement from the KC, to be acknowledged,  that we, and we alone as custodians of our breed,  are in the best position to bring the GSD back to the prominence it once  held.
  Regards.
     Paul Rattigan

i agree with all you,ved said paul,but there,s 1 big problem.THE KENNEL CLUB.THEY WONT LISTEN WILL THEY.if only they would meet us halfway.i personally DONT WANT A BREAKAWAY FROM THE KC,BUT,if they,re not prepared to sit down,listen to our respresentatives views /opinions on the way forward,and then we,on theirs and then work together,where do we go.have yu got the solution????no malice intended,just a question.Carole Spelman

David
Please, you of all people - don't preach humility to me - or self indulgence for that matter - that is just too rich. I have read many, many documents out of Germany, and can assure you that many in well placed positions share the same view that I do. They don't all blindly dance to the same tune.

My comments and assertions are not 'uninformed', nor do I believe are they 'self-indulgent'. They are made with the background of a great deal of knowledge, and personal experience. I am always willing to learn more, from those I respect.
I guess that, as I am not in your sphere of 'influence' you can't denigrate me any other way. So be it - your opinion of me concerns me not a jot.

Paul - thank you for seeing where I am coming from in some areas. I don't agree with you that this is all going to go to the alsatianists - I think that this is a massive assumption that everyone seems to be making. Alsatians do not meet the breed standard. The GSD world does not consist of just German Showline and Alsatians. There are the working side and more moderate middle of the road types, and I would like to see these come into the mix.

SueB etc
I agree with you about the ABS - I really really do. This is obviously not coming across in my posts. What I really don't think is fair is for you to damage those in the scheme who do care and who do health test, and to lobby for the public to not go to KC breeders, I think that's crazy.  The KC really do have to do something about this, I agree, but don't you think that they are aware that all is not well with the scheme? My feeling is that they have to be.  Personally I think it's a shame that a lot of good people, with great knowledge and potential influence will have broken away from the KC, that potential will all have been lost to the wider future of the GSD. Yes, in your own movement you will be health testing, but what about the soundness issue? and, let's be honest here, you are quite a minority (no slight intended). It could take years for you to get a good operational system, and in the meantime something needs to be in place to care for all breeds, not just the GSD.

No, the KC are not listening right now, and I think that is partly because this whole thing has become a brawl. The KC no doubt feel the same of you, that you're not listening. Rome wasn't built in a day. Great changes could be made in the KC in the next 5 years that will benefit breeds as a whole. Yes the KC have to be 'led by the nose' or 'kicked up the ****' as proved by PDE. So much is in the offing, the APGAW report will come into it as well. I think it will take much longer than that for any breakaway group to set up a workable system.