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by mysteres misery on 30 March 2010 - 03:03
by noddi on 30 March 2010 - 06:03
i suppose colour /shade is wot one percieves it to be.i am also not against others who breed just for 1 particular colour,even non standard ones,as long as they do all the relevant health tests.we can all produce blues,whites,livers and long coats for that matter in our litters.i,ve learnt something today,altho.not quite sure wot yu mean by patterned sable.a friend did once tell me that a sable can be born to a white if it carried the sable gene.seems wierd to me but this person aint one to lie.i await your next contribution.Carole S.
by Penny on 30 March 2010 - 07:03
Hi Mystere,
Your weekly topic of different articles will be looked forward to - but may I say that if you want them to be discussions, rather than slanging matches, your approach has to be a little more moderate than your first post. I actually have an interet in your post as above, as I have a little quandry going on at present. However, I read it through and through to decide myself whether this was a genuine - bringing out of info from everyone that could - or annoying the folk on the board that would bite back, I hope its the first.
Non Standard Colours. Right. I have just had, for the first time in my activity with the breed - over 35 years, two brown colour puppies. They are brown. Without a doubt, not blue, not sable, not anything BROWN with cream markings. Whilst beautiful and whilst healthy, they are non standard. I have sent my litter registration off to the KC and called them Liver - dont know what else to describe them as - KC have come back to me by letter, and havent got that in the computer to generate a registration, neither do they have brown. What do others do with their non standard colours. Are they low enough in the pack to go with no paperwork? I was going to sell them as normal, with an endorsement from the KC and signed up, that they can never be bred from. am I far off the track of what people do? When I reminded the KC that they register whites, she said they have that set up on their computer ! Mo.
Your weekly topic of different articles will be looked forward to - but may I say that if you want them to be discussions, rather than slanging matches, your approach has to be a little more moderate than your first post. I actually have an interet in your post as above, as I have a little quandry going on at present. However, I read it through and through to decide myself whether this was a genuine - bringing out of info from everyone that could - or annoying the folk on the board that would bite back, I hope its the first.
Non Standard Colours. Right. I have just had, for the first time in my activity with the breed - over 35 years, two brown colour puppies. They are brown. Without a doubt, not blue, not sable, not anything BROWN with cream markings. Whilst beautiful and whilst healthy, they are non standard. I have sent my litter registration off to the KC and called them Liver - dont know what else to describe them as - KC have come back to me by letter, and havent got that in the computer to generate a registration, neither do they have brown. What do others do with their non standard colours. Are they low enough in the pack to go with no paperwork? I was going to sell them as normal, with an endorsement from the KC and signed up, that they can never be bred from. am I far off the track of what people do? When I reminded the KC that they register whites, she said they have that set up on their computer ! Mo.
by pod on 30 March 2010 - 07:03
Yes that's correct noddi. A sable doesn't necessarily have a sable parent. White is a pattern that conceals all other (or almost) colours. White x B&T could produce sable if the white parent 'carried' sable.
by pod on 30 March 2010 - 07:03
Mo, I've been addressing the problem of colour registration in another breed just lately. The KC have brought in new restrictions for colour and they seem to have narrowed down the choice of terms to those that have been used in each individual breed over the last couple of years... at least that how it appears in the breed I'm working on.
They do still accept non standard colours. It could be that 'brown' is actually listed for the GSD. If you want the KC's list reviewed, it will have to be done though the Council or parent breed club.
Edit: just read again. They don't have brown.. hmm. Chocolate maybe?
They do still accept non standard colours. It could be that 'brown' is actually listed for the GSD. If you want the KC's list reviewed, it will have to be done though the Council or parent breed club.
Edit: just read again. They don't have brown.. hmm. Chocolate maybe?
by jaymesie51 on 30 March 2010 - 08:03
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Mo the reason they do not have liver or blue in the system is because they are not standard colours white as far as the KC are concerned is a standard colour i would think most would register blue/liver as blk/tan and should have a progeny not for registration on their papers but if honest the KC will lift this if the owner asks them to even with signed contracts as at the end of the day its more money for them.
jim h
PS i heard of a breeder who sold a bitch pup with endorsements only to find that the KC had lifted the endorsement even though the breeder had a signed contract because the owner said that they did not realise that progeny not for registration ment that they could not register their puppies so much for endorsements so if you do put endorsements on your stock you must ensure that you also get them to sign that they understand that if they breed this dog/bitch then any resulting pups cannot be registered just telling them what progeny not for registration means is not enough.
Mo the reason they do not have liver or blue in the system is because they are not standard colours white as far as the KC are concerned is a standard colour i would think most would register blue/liver as blk/tan and should have a progeny not for registration on their papers but if honest the KC will lift this if the owner asks them to even with signed contracts as at the end of the day its more money for them.
jim h
PS i heard of a breeder who sold a bitch pup with endorsements only to find that the KC had lifted the endorsement even though the breeder had a signed contract because the owner said that they did not realise that progeny not for registration ment that they could not register their puppies so much for endorsements so if you do put endorsements on your stock you must ensure that you also get them to sign that they understand that if they breed this dog/bitch then any resulting pups cannot be registered just telling them what progeny not for registration means is not enough.
by noddi on 30 March 2010 - 11:03
thank yu pod for that info.jim h...i had 2 blues in one of my litters and i registered them as blues and this was published on their reg.papers and in the breed record supplements.the litter was born either late 2000 or early 2001.the dam was RHEINMEISTER CHARLY if yu want to check.mo .these puppies do sound like livers,i saw one once at an open show at maidstone many years ago and i seems to remember it did have slight cream markings.it was a male and extremely handsome.it was from english lines.i dont understand WHY THE KC HAVENT THIS COLOUR IN THEIR COMPUTER SYSTEM AS THIS COLOUR ALONG WITH BLUES,WHITE IS IN THE KC STANDARD.Edward and Carole Spelman RHEINMEISTER GSDS.
by bazza on 30 March 2010 - 12:03
Never had a non standard colour in any litters but i find it add that the KC don't have liver on their computer. What about all the breeders with the weird and wonderful colours, I've seen blue, liver, white, cream, champagne and wait for it chiffon puppies advertised, what do they register them as? I suppose if the KC won't register brown/liver it guarantees their progeny can't be either?
To the OP I too am looking forward to reading your weekly contributions as long as they are constructive, helpful, and informative they should go down a real treat.
To the OP I too am looking forward to reading your weekly contributions as long as they are constructive, helpful, and informative they should go down a real treat.
by Jonah1 on 30 March 2010 - 13:03
MA SISTER IN LAW AD 3 LIVER AN GOLD IN NOVEMBER OUT O TEN PUPS, TWO O EM WER LONGAIRED --- SHE WULDNA REGISTER EM AN SOLD EM CHEAP WI OUT NA PEDIGREE JUS FER PETS . PRETTY LIL THINGS WEN THEY WER SIX WEEKS , I SEEN ONE O EM LAS NIGHT THO AN IT AINT SA PRETTY NA MOR.
by kitkat3478 on 30 March 2010 - 13:03
http://www.siriusdog.com/article.php?id=206&page=2
www.siriusdog.com/article.php
This is a Fred Lanting article(I copied some of it, just to demonstrate it's interesting appeal).Anyone with a real interest in the colors will find this a very interesting read
When the GSD breed got started, there were many sables, probably far more than there were B&Ts, and perhaps some with wolf-agouti pattern as well. (In my book, you will even see a blue merle GSD from the 1920s!) What happened to the sable in the show lines, and why have the "working lines" kept so many of them? The answer to the second part is simpler, and it involves the breeder Alfred Hahn of BuseckerSchloß fame. When I visited with him, he told me how he started his kennel in 1925, and how he had a special leaning toward the "gray" dog. He showed me many photos of his past and current successes, and in most cases they were sables. the hardest and most imposing GSD I’ve ever come across, and I had a Gin v. Lierberg daughter that could also eat iron and spit out ten-penny nails. They were B&Ts, but they had tough and beautiful sables in their backgrounds.Hahn had the single greatest influence on both the preservation of the sable, and on the furtherance of the "total" show-working dog of any in his long tenure. He blended the best working dog lines with the best "show" dogs. Behind the greatest "golden middle" dogs that ever lived (the Lierberg B, D, and other litters) was the BuseckerSchloß name. I knew Bodo,
Timo and daughter Darlehn, both heterozygous sables, both with black masks.
Timo was a very popular sable, yet color prejudice contributed to his not being named German Sieger.
I'm hoping maybe in the near future posts some, more people would post about working /showline cross success.
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